Child abuse or something to ignore?!?

amother

Wed, Sep 13 2006, 10:31 am

amother wrote:

I wish you were there 15 years ago, when my mother was pinching me and put a stop to it, so I wouldnt suffer till today....

I am sorry that you still suffer from things from your childhood. Growing up, my mother really had a bad temper and would take it out on us, but mostly my two younger siblings. Although I was young myself, I would often put myself in between my mom and my siblings to try to protect them. I always wondered why my father didnt try harder to protect us. But honestly, I dont think it would have made my life better had someone intervened. B/c half the time my mom was a wonderful mother. I wish I knew what you should do-OP. I would say to ask a rav that u trust what to do. BUT, nomatter what, you must find out the name of the girl/mother. That is the first step.

Nachisdoll

Wed, Sep 13 2006, 11:12 am

Teachers are very often young and inexperienced...they wount know what to do with this sort of information. Telling a principle or nurse might help them solve a puzzle theyve been confused about...or they might tell you this sort of thing never happened b4 and theyll look out so it doesnt happen again...this is a child...u need to help her!

Blossom

Wed, Sep 13 2006, 11:31 am

Oh my Goodness!!!
Doesn't sound right at all.
Please tell someone as soon as possible. Being that you know the principal and can find out info about the teacher, you can decide who is best to tell this to. But you must tell it to someone.
It is your responsibility. Maybe Hashem put her in your sight today just for this reason. Of course it may be just a one-time happening and not abuse, Hopefully. But this is something you cannot decide on your own.
It is important always to report behavior that doesn't sound right. It is actually a huge responsiblity. It has absolutely nothing to do with accusing but just doing your duty. The principal or whoever you decide to tell it to will be able to determine what's going on and I'm sure will know how to handle it.
If that would've been me I would be talking to someone now and follow up on it. Of course only to the principal or someone who has the authority and the common sense to deal with this situation appropriately. I don't see where "ripping a family apart" comes in with relaying a situation which might be a sign of something problematic.
Good Luck!!

amother

Wed, Sep 13 2006, 8:49 pm

I remember as a child lying in bed, and wishing that people would know what is going on in our house, as my mother was a very good actor and nobody had any idea how she abused us at home,
everyone thought we had the perfect home, with the perfect ribbons in the hair, and the 3 course meal every day...( which we had)
but the true picture was a mother that never ever smiled or was happy, always complaining aobut something and hitting like there was no tom.
when dad came home, she would be a bit better so he didnt really know what was going on, so I cant blame him now. and besides what would it help???
so yes, I would have wanted someone to interfer, but I never had the guts to say anything to nobody.
untill I got married and told e/t to my husband....

amother

Wed, Sep 13 2006, 9:43 pm

Where should the line for abuse be drawn? I am not being sarcastic, I am really curious. Growing up, I too remember incidents of my mother hitting us or being in a bad mood at times, I never thought of my childhood as an abusive one though and when I think of my mother I think she was quite a good mom. There are times where I shout at my kids and say awful things that I wish I could take back or I'll pick up my child quite aggressively to put him in time out.... Am I abusive? What is the norm? How do we know when it is called abuse?

Ruchel

Thu, Sep 14 2006, 4:32 am

amother wrote:

I think this is a good question. And I think it is very cultural. For some, it is hitting. Hitting out of anger. Hitting "coldly" (without anger). Sending the child to hospital (yes, I have heard this one). Yelling "Stop that you [censored] or I'm gonna kill you". Saying coldly "You're not my son anymore, you are dead to me".

My husband was an easy and calm child, most of the time. In his "worst" periods, he was slapped about once a week. I was a difficult and strong willed child, in my worst periods I was slapped or hit once a year or so. My parents could say bad things when they "lost it". His were more the "cold but deadly" style.
At school, no one believed me when I said I was almost never hit. At shul, I see parents hitting or insulting their children. In the street too. I notice frum Jews, Xtians & Muslims hit a lot, Muslims being the worst. Xtians sometimes still whip, Muslims don't but they hit on the head or with the fist. Jews "only" slap on the face or the bottom, but they still do it to big children, I have seen 18+ "children" hit. They also pinch - unfortunately some do so until it bleeds. Often, the boys are a lot more hit. Making the child skip a meal is also common.

It is difficult to know where to draw the line of abuse, apart from obvious cases. I would be tempted to say, abuse is when the child ends up traumatized.

amother

Thu, Sep 14 2006, 9:49 am

The way I see it- abuse is:
1) done out of anger
2) when discipline is doled out at any random moment, not as a thought out, carefully decided last resort
3) when parent is not feeling love for child, even as they discipline
4) any form of punishment that is cruel or painful
5) anything that makes the child afraid

Personally- I never hit my children unless it is absolutely necessary, and I usually cry as I do hit them. (and I would NEVER ever hit their face!! THAT IS SICK).
if I do feel I must discipline with a physical method- I hit my child's hand gently, or sometimes their bottom. I remain calm the entire time, and I tell my child that I love them so much and im so sorry taht I have to do this, but I am doing it to teach them '__________".

I never want my children to be afraid of me.

happymom

Thu, Sep 14 2006, 9:53 am

Quote:

Xtians sometimes still whip, Muslims don't but they hit on the head or with the fist. Jews "only" slap on the face or the bottom, but they still do it to big children, I have seen 18+ "children" hit. They also pinch - unfortunately some do so until it bleeds. Often, the boys are a lot more hit. Making the child skip a meal is also common.

sounds like abuse to me shock

a parent who hits out iof anger is doing EXACTLY what thier children do. children will NOT LEARN that way. its like grabbing a toy away from a child in order to teach them not to grab. it makes NO SENSE

Flowerchild

Thu, Sep 14 2006, 9:58 am

abuse is hard to define and hard to determine at times. we all go through days where we get angry and want to scream, and we might spank our child or say something mean. yet when that happens there is love and the child is happy and loved and is not affraid of the parent. when its abuse, usually it is consistant its a ritual, that happens all the time every day. children are usually very subdued or very aggressive, have very little friends to almost no friends, spend alot of time at home. etc etc. yet it is still hard to define, you can have a subdued kid because thats his personality etc. but teachers are the best people to find out, because they see the child everyday for most of the day and they learn(if its a good teacher) they childs personality. maybe in yeshivas the teachers are too young and thats a problem I think, but certified teachers get educated in such matters. I had to take a course on child abuse for my degree, its pretty scary how much abuse there really is.

amother

Fri, Sep 15 2006, 2:03 pm

I really eish that people without knoledge and experience would not give their opinions. if theres even a chance this might be abuse of course you should get involved, of course you should try and save this girl
ok so maybe its not abuse so then theyll find out its not but sounds to me it probably was and I care about this child alot more than I do of maybe hurting the motehrs feelings. she should know better than pinching a child hard !! that is wrong I dont care of she was angry or upset she is hurting her child

would u like it if somone pinched you hard?

I dont think so!!