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Learned women/learned men



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carrot




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 09 2006, 7:21 pm
GR wrote:
nevermind the fact that we ladies who aren't very learned cannot be "trusted" in our opinions as to what is assur and what is not.


I am at least as learned as my husband on MANY MANY topics in Halacha. I don't understand this attitude that since we are women we are by necessity ignoramuses. (Ignorami?)
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gryp




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 09 2006, 9:03 pm
for starters, I certainly did not learn in Yeshiva for the same amount of years that my husband did. and that's just the basic first step.

I know there are learned women and I admire them incredibly. but they are the minority.
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carrot




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Nov 09 2006, 11:30 pm
My husband is officially "Rabbi" but my education was in many ways superior to his. Plus I am innately more skilled in text reading of Hebrew. (My Aramaic is sparse.) When we learn together it is often me who explains things to him.
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technic




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 10 2006, 3:18 am
[quote="carrot"](Ignorami?)[quote]

isnt that the japanese papermaking craft??? LOL
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mali




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 10 2006, 5:50 am
technic wrote:
carrot wrote:
(Ignorami?)


isnt that the japanese papermaking craft??? LOL
technic, you never fail to entertain us!
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gryp




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 10 2006, 9:34 am
carrot, do you think that's a very common scenario?
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carrot




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 10 2006, 1:50 pm
Not that uncommon. And not uncommon at all for husbands and wives to be on the same level, at least.

There are many men (especially Lubavitch) who get Semicha and they do not all of a sudden receive 50 extra I.Q. points or a bigger dose of common sense or good judgment. They are the same people they were before.

And anyway, I don't like the implication that just because we are women it must be that we don't know things. It isn't that way. If somebody doesn't know something it is not simply because she is a woman. It is because she didn't learn it or doesn't understand it, which is a situation that is not specific to the female condition.

Except in the sense that people think that girls don't need to learn much because they are only going to grow up to be women, and then surprise surprise the girls grow up and become women who don't know much, and that itself becomes proof that women are by definition ignorant.
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Nomad




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 10 2006, 2:19 pm
Thumbs Up carrot!
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Piper




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 10 2006, 4:23 pm
Nomad wrote:
Thumbs Up carrot!


Cheers
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gryp




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Nov 11 2006, 7:36 pm
Wow. That's not what I meant at all.

Quote:
Not that uncommon. And not uncommon at all for husbands and wives to be on the same level, at least

It is definitely uncommon for a women to be learned. Unfortunately is not uncommon for men to be unlearned as well. but that doesnt automatically upgrade the woman's level of knowledge!!

I am not talking about IQ points, intelligence, common sense, or good judgement. I'm talking about KNOWLEDGE.

Does anyone here claim they have the time to sit down and study as much as their husband has in the past in the years of Yeshiva, and their daily study schedule as well?

Men who have not been through Yeshiva and who don't have a set daily learning schedule do not "count" towards the typical learned man in this discussion. There is no point comparing and contrasting women's and men's level of knowledge if there is very little knowledge to begin with.
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Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Nov 11 2006, 9:03 pm
carrot wrote:
I am at least as learned as my husband on MANY MANY topics in Halacha.


Well, certainly, since women are obligated in many areas of halacha as a man is, ex. kashrus and Shabbos, brachos

Quote:
I don't understand this attitude that since we are women we are by necessity ignoramuses. (Ignorami?)


Depends on what area you are talking about. Women are often more knowledgeable in Tanach and Historia. Men are usually more learned in Halacha, and certainly in Torah in general through the study of Mishnayos, Gemara and Meforshim. By the time a bachur is in beis medrash fulltime, he is studying Torah at least 10 hours a day. Girls don't do this.

Semicha is irrelevant to this discussion, IMO, since it entails a focused study for a (relatively) brief period of time on a particular area of halacha. Being able to master this says nothing about one's IQ level or the extent of one's general Torah knowledge.

Quote:
not uncommon at all for husbands and wives to be on the same level, at least.


Quite rare, from what I know of the frum world. This is for the simple reason that girls generally want to marry boys they can look up to, so the most knowledgeable girl who teaches limudei kodesh in high school, will seek to marry a bachur who is a metzuyan.

Quote:
I don't like the implication that just because we are women it must be that we don't know things. It isn't that way. If somebody doesn't know something it is not simply because she is a woman. It is because she didn't learn it or doesn't understand it, which is a situation that is not specific to the female condition.


I disagree. The very nature of a boy's curriculum is such that a serious bachur will FAR SURPASS a serious girl BY FAR.

Quote:
people think that girls don't need to learn much because they are only going to grow up to be women


Men have the constant mitzva of Talmud Torah. Women do not.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 12 2006, 12:47 am
Often the husband will know much more in religious topics, and the wife in secular topics.
Ok, I'm sure some guys manage to concile a Phd & serious Torah study, but a minority I think.
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