Help! Any Ideas? | Imamother

Tablepoetry

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 8:02 am

Difficult situation. There are kids who are rabid about their privacy. You need to walk a fine line here, between trying to get him into a school he FINALLY agrees to go to, and not making yourself into a shmatte.

Social services are probably already somewhat involved if you are divorced, but if not I am not sure I would call them up. They can sometimes meddle too much and do more harm than good. They also take control, which means they take the control out of your hands.

AFAIK a kid in Israel only legally needs to go to school till age 16, but even at age 15 no one really forces him. You can call ktzin bikur sadeer (truancy officer?) and they will get on his case, but honestly, there's not much they can do. If he were younger, they might force him into a boarding school, but at this age, not much they do.

I would try not to involve the police, because it could mess up his chances of getting drafted. And even if you are charedi, I have a feeling it might be good for him to be drafted. At the very least, it's a good way to get him out of the house and give yourself some breathing space. At best, it might just knock some sense and pride into him.

Tablepoetry

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 8:06 am

saw50st8 wrote:

Find him a job doing hard labor. Construction isn't easy. He'll be so tired he will either be more compliant or decide school is a better choice.

I assume you were joking, but in any case, you can't force a 15 yr old to work, just like you can't force him to go to school.
Ironically, you are much more helpless with a rebellious 15 yr old than with a rebellious 18 yr old. At least you can legally kick the latter out of your home.
I don't think it's legal to kick a 15 yr old out, and anyway, where would he go?

mommydiaries

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 8:50 am

First of all, no one deserves to be going through this alone. I am sorry that you have to be in such a difficult situation.
I think it would be a good idea to go to a rav who knows your son for advice. Depending on what your son is like he might say to take a very hard line with him or your son may need a more gentle approach. I don't know your sons personality at all, but at 15 he should understand that you are financially strapped and that like you said, you can't bring $ from air. Call his father and ask. He won't give it, but from your sons perspective you tried. Then maybe sit with him and show him your expenses. "I make x amount of $, this is how much rent is, this is the electic bill etc." And then say "if you can find a way to make the numbers work, we will try". This way the oness is on him not you.

amother

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 1:04 pm

I didn't read through the entire thread, but I am in the same place as you and I try as best as I can to do what's right for the child even if his dad is acting like a jerk.

I also understand ds' attitude at not wanting you to be involved; I'm guessing that before this, your involvement did casue him pornlma and he did feel like a 'misken', which no child wants.

That amount of tuition is a bit higher than average but certainly not exorbitant. The ral qwuitosn is not if you hsoudl in all fairness be paying this amount, but if you are all capable of it. if yes, I would drop the "fairness" factor and leave that up to H' - I would pay it and smile that he's found a yeshiva - on his own, showing both independence and goodwill - where he will iyh be happy and learn well. (as a matter of fact, that is what I do - I don't receive any money beyond minimal child support - not medical expenses or tuition - but that's not the child's peckele to bear.)

if you really cannot afford it, explain that to your child and take it from there. He sounds resourceful, mature, and intelligent enough to be able to make this decision together with you.

amother

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 3:50 am

Well, the situation moved on a little:
Since Wednesday, ds stayed at home with the excuse of a fever and sore throat. He did look sick, so I decided to believe him, and he didn't go anywhere, just rested all day.

While I wasn't home one day last week, I called the mother of the boy who's learning in the yeshiva. She told me that the place is very good, though her ds just left because he fell out with a few of the other boys. But she said that in general, the learning is fine and the Rabbis are very empathetic and understanding. She also said that the R Y is a very reasonable guy, and while 1200 is the price, that's when the boy is dorming, which ds is not. She therefore suggested I call him, but I didn't yet get a chance to.

Last night, now that he's feeling better, I said to him that I wanted to discuss things with him. But he refused.

This morning, I asked him if he was getting up for yeshiva. Without writing every single thing, he again says he doesn't want to discuss anything with me. (Actually I got very angry with him and then explained that I just can't stand watching kids lying around in bed doing nothing with their lives ...) No he is not going back to the yeshiva. It's not for him and he is not prepared for me to discuss it with him or work out anything with the R Y. He then tells me he has a job but I'm not to know where or how much he'll be paid or anything. In the end, he said he'll be working in a toy store near the yeshiva - which makes me wonder how much time he was ever really there.

I'm now sitting at work taking a break. But AFAIK he's still sitting at home (that's where I left him), doing nothing. He says he's starting work tomorrow. I told him that if he's now working, he can handle his own expenses. He said he will and that he wanted to give me some of the money but would prefer to spend it on renting a room with his friends. I said "do what you like!" but I don't think he will.

He also said it was my fault for sending him to yeshiva too young. (He was the youngest boy in his class, but he couldn't stay at his Talmud Torah for another year at the time, and when I tried to get him into another Talmud Torah, they wouldn't take him. So I had little option to send him to yeshiva but near home. I don't see what else I could have done ...)

I don't know how much money he'll get from some toy store that's quite happy to exploit a foolish 15 year old. I haven't informed his father either. I don't think he could do much to help and if anything, probably more harm.

I was thinking that I should just let him do what he wants. He isn't going to listen to me anyway. And as he's so young, he could always try to reenter the yeshiva world in another year. I think he's messed this year up anyway. ...

Just venting ...

deself

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 8:20 am

If you post the name of the yeshiva, maybe some of us Israelis can tell you something about it.
But in any case, definitely don't just give your ds 1200 shekels and send him off! You have to be in touch with the RY to make sure he is really welcome and really attending. And then keep in touch to make sure he is continuing to attend and is functioning there. Otherwise, you might discover that he's living in Tel Aviv!
Don't worry about ds being annoyed. He is clearly wanting some cooperation from you, and not just dumping you altogether. In that case, make sure he gets your cooperation on your terms.
Good luck,
D.

amother

Sun, Dec 30 2012, 9:28 am

Well he just told me his whole plan.

He said he feels very unchallenged in yeshiva, and I can see why. He's got an above average IQ and he said that he gets what the Rav says before everyone else does, especially in this new yeshiva and he therefore felt he would go crazy with boredom.

So he wants to spend the rest of the year working and to use some of the money towards paying an avreich to learn with him for an hour or two each day. He says that if he feels ready to, he'll go to yeshiva gedolah next year. He even knows which yeshiva gedolah he wants to go to. His plan sounds very logical and well-thought-out, so I said I valued the fact that he had thought it out. He also told me to remember - despite the six months that he's been on and off at home, he's still in black and white, still davens three times every day, and is definitely not hanging out on the street or chasing girls - all of which is true. He said that just because a bochur is working and not in yeshiva, that doesn't mean he'll go off even though so many do.

He also begged me to say nothing to his father, and I have promised I won't. And as far as the kids are concerned, he'll be going to "yeshiva" every day.

"Why can't other people think out of the box?" he said, and I thought that's very true.

I have no problem with him doing this in principle - except that I still think he's a little young. But I'll give him a chance. He's got big dreams - and a lot of talent and potential. Now I just hope they'll all come true!