Conservative converts

amother

Wed, Mar 27 2013, 3:48 pm

I'm so frustrated!! My fil, a very kind and generous man, is a conservative convert. We're seeing a lot of him over the Chag and I'm just so frustrated (don't worry, I don't show it at all) with how he doesn't know aaaannnnnyyyyything about Judaism. I just feel like, what's the point? I mean, to me, Judaism is a lot about DOING. Some even say that if you don't Gd forbid believe in Hashem but you do the mitzvot, you're ok. I mean, his lack of knowledge about even the most basic facts of Judaism, for a convert, are baffling to me.

Ok, vent over. Thanks.

amother

Wed, Mar 27 2013, 4:01 pm

My mother was a conservative convert before I was born. She learned almost nothing before her conservative conversion. She still doesn't know that much except the basics of shabbos and kashrus and very basic daily living, after her orthodox conversion, before which we lived with a frum family for 3 months so she could learn. One is not obligated to know everything before even an orthodox conversion. His conversion may not be kosher so it shouldn't bother you too much.

amother

Wed, Mar 27 2013, 4:16 pm

In my head I know you're right. He's not religious at all though he lovesisrael and really believes in
Hashem. None of this affects me at all, I'm more just mad at the rabbis who do this. He converted many, many years ago, and his idea of kashrut is that he doesn't eat pork or shellfish. (That's it). That's basically how he observes. Now that I've vented I feel a little guilty (at least I'm anon) because he's really very kind, but goodness! To not even know what Shabbat is about!

Op

mirror

Wed, Mar 27 2013, 11:56 pm

amother wrote:

Please consult with a Rav since despite his Conservative conversion, he is technically not Jewish, and we Jews don't try to go around converting people the way missionaries do. I don't know if you are even allowed to teach him about Shabbos. As a Halachic non-Jew, he is certainly not allowed to keep Shabbos.

bamamama

Thu, Mar 28 2013, 2:04 am

amother wrote:

If he converted many years ago, I would be DLKZ the rabbis and rather think that his memory might be at fault. After all, if he hasn't been keeping Shabbos for all these years, why would he devote valuable brainspace to remembering the halachos?

I converted Conservative before my O conversion and I came out knowing quite a bit, actually.

amother

Thu, Mar 28 2013, 3:15 am

OPINIONATED wrote:

amother wrote:

Wadr, im not getting involved other than to vent here. It's just not my place and it would be beyond awkward (unacceptable) if we were to all of a sudden treat him differently. We don't see him very often.

amother

Thu, Mar 28 2013, 3:21 am

bamamama wrote:

amother wrote:

Op

Maybe you do have something there. But why convert and then live 2+ hours from a shul? I just don't get it.

Ah well.

amother

Thu, Mar 28 2013, 3:57 am

None of what you described has anything to do with the "conservative" in "conservative conversion" because besides for one or two key things, conservative conversion and orthodox conversion is almost IDENTICAL.

I am NO champion of the conservative movement, but conservative conversions are distinctly involved... and almost halachic. And for everyones information, this man may be a halachic Jew as conservative conversions from decades ago, have met such high standards that beis dins have accepted some as halachic bidiavad.

What a conservative jew knows vs what a conservative convert knows can be WORLDS aoart.

My guess is either like someone suggested, he doesnt remember a whole lot since it was that long ago, or more likely... he CHOOSES to practice to a lesser degree than youre comfortable with for the same reason he CHOSE a conservative conversion! He doesnt want to keep shabbos like an orthodox person... he converted and practices to the low level of observance that he is comfortable with.

amother

Thu, Mar 28 2013, 4:40 am

amother wrote:

I almost agree, but I know the rabbi that he converted with and he was totally fine with him living very, very far from shul and not separating meat and dairy, as well as many other things. the rabbi knew that they wouldmt be keeping shabbat fully (candles lit, dinner eaten, then tv coming on, drving and working and etc) And they call this rabbi conservadox himself, but he's just All about bringing more people into the fold, I guess. I just makes me sad, but I agree, he has chosen to not be so observant. I don't know why it bugs me, it usually doesn't and actually does even less now that I've had the opportunity to vent a bit... But I know a few orthodox converts and they went through something way more rigorous than fil. I guess it depends on the rabbi and the congregation, etc etc.

amother

Thu, Mar 28 2013, 5:16 am

amother wrote:

I am a previous amother on this thread. My mother's conversion was no where near halachik. It was in a swimming pool, wearing a bathing suit. Her experience was clearly not unique because it was a group conversion with a whole bunch of people who took a few classes together and then all took a dip in the Y (or some such) pool together.
Having spoken to rabbanim about conservative conversion it was not my impression that this recognized and official conservative beit din was a huge oddity. There may be singular situations where a conservative conversion is considered kosher bidieved but that is not the majority. Including ones from decades ago, as my mother's was.

nylon

Thu, Mar 28 2013, 12:40 pm

Regarding old conservative conversions, it is neither exceptional nor commonplace. It was never some official Beit Din that was recognized, rather, individual conversions were, based on a lot of factors including the convert's motivations, the composition of the Beit Din, and what has happened since the conversion.

Especially 40 years ago, geirus was very variable across the board. I can tell you about 40 year old Orthodox conversions that wouldn't meet muster today (probably quite a few, given how the system has changed). And the situation with the swimming pool, doesn't meet Conservative standards either AFAIK (although there have been issues with conversions performed in small communities where a real mikvah wasn't used). Over the years, more formal recommendations have been put in regarding education of converts. But there is never a guarantee that some rabbi won't follow the recommendations.

Ruchel

Fri, Mar 29 2013, 8:34 am

Oh yeah, there are some Orthodox conversions, still today in more "relaxed" countries, that wouldn't fly in other places.

Some conservative conversions include kosher-shabbes-male bet din. They can be accepted by Orthodox bet din. My cousin (Jewish father) has such a conversion. They told her she needs two fridges and was very shocked when she arrived by me!

On the other hand, my other cousin's wife had an Orthodox conversion, one week in a North African country, in the 60s. You can imagine.