Spinoff I grew up Satmar amother enabled

amother

Thu, Apr 25 2013, 1:49 pm

amother wrote:

If you like the way satmar is today then good for you, continue living your life. tell yourself whatever you need to in order to be able to sleep at night. but others want change and dont have a voice to say so. they need help from people on the outside and some of us are listening to their cries of help and want to help them do something about it. so quit telling me to move on or whatever and start helping the people on the inside get the change the need and deserve.

Nope, see that's the thing. I DON'T like the way Satmar is today, and therefore I have moved on. I have left Satmar, I am in colllege getting my own education, and I speak my mind to everyone I meet. If you're in college, you've obviously moved on from Satmar, too, and are helping yourself just fine. I fail to see the problem here. Whoever wants help, can move on like we did, whoever doesn't can stay right where they are.

amother

Thu, Apr 25 2013, 1:55 pm

amother wrote:

Mama Bear wrote:

Let it be known that green amother of this thread is my hero. A true voice of reason if I ever saw one. I wish I would know your true identity because I admire your level headedness and honesty.

she is the voice of reason because she is expressing your sentiments? That doesnt automatically mean that she is being reasonable but I wouldnt expect you to understand that.

How am I expressing Mama Bear's sentiments at all? My views are diametrically opposed to hers, entirely. It seems like you're the one who's not understanding things here.

amother

Thu, Apr 25 2013, 2:14 pm

sequoia wrote:

Again: I sympathize greatly, but you will not effect change by ranting or sounding personally offended. Nelson Mandela didn't do that.

And especially not by ranting about a dead person! Whatever the rebbe's faults, he's not here anymore. What use is it to complain about the way he ran the community or the restrictions he imposed?

The only way to bring about change is to start from the ground up and persuasively convince people that there is a better way.

oh, honey, he might not be here in person but he is def here in spirit. satmar continues to follow his directives even though he hasnt been alive for 33 years and that is what people dont really understand. Crying

amother

Thu, Apr 25 2013, 2:15 pm

amother wrote:

let me try this again--if you feel like you are doing the right thing by leaving the community and not looking back then good for you, carry on with your life. How am I not validating your experiences?

And how am I not validating yours? I admit your education was not as great as it could have been, the community is not very tolerant of differences, and change is not respected. Doesn't change the fact that you can and you have helped yourself, along with others like you and me.

Adults make their own choices.

sequoia

Thu, Apr 25 2013, 2:28 pm

Okay, wow, this is frustrating.

I AGREE with what you're saying and don't doubt the truth of it for a moment. But the WAY you're expressing yourself turns people off, and in order to effect change in the community, you need to persuade people. You can't persuade them by turning them off.

Suppose I came to you and started yelling at you about what a horrible, stupid, incompetent person you are. Would you want to join me for any endeavor? No. You wouldn't want to be around me.

People who are currently within the community associate themselves with it. And you need them if you want to effect change.

takeiteasy

Thu, Apr 25 2013, 2:32 pm

Wow! I read the last few pages of this thread and its pretty enjoyable.
Green amother you are amazing!!!!
I am a satmar graduate and am perfectly happy the way I was educated. And was never interested in pursuing further education. And most of my friend are happy the way they are!
There are plenty of women that had a higher and better education and they are now SAHM.
If you are not happy the way your life is now the only one who can change it is yourself. Stop being resentful and blame the world!!! CHANGE YOURSELF AND YOU HAVE CHANGED THE WORLD.

amother

Thu, Apr 25 2013, 2:55 pm

amother wrote:

And I choose to talk about my experiences instead of just bottling them up and disappearing yet you continue to tell me not to do so. That is invalidating me entirely.

Nope. I'm telling you that you can say and do as you wish and please, and by all means do so. I'm also telling you that from myself - a person that experience firsthand the same that you did - along with several other Satmar women on this thread - that your portrayal and accusations are disingenuous and inaccurate at best. I'll be the first the admit that there are many, many problems and issues with the system in general, but not the educational background you keep harping on. What would you tell a Harvard grad-turned-bal tshuvah who continually rants at his alma mater for not sufficiently providing him with a gemara and semicha track?

amother

Thu, Apr 25 2013, 3:01 pm

amother wrote:

And I choose to talk about my experiences instead of just bottling them up and disappearing yet you continue to tell me not to do so. That is invalidating me entirely.

green amother, what are the real issues that satmar needs to deal with?

tzfatisha

Thu, Apr 25 2013, 6:31 pm

it seems to me that having a young woman shave her head when she gets married is a way to remove her identity and view of herself.. even if she does it voluntarily..because she is doing it to fulfil societal expectations
it's the sort of thing they do to prisoners etc as a way to humiliate them/and or remove their femininity..
and it was one fo the first things they did to women in the camps...

it also seems likely that it would make her less physically attractive to her husband .. which may also be part of the idea..

I know some people may consider a bald head s*xy but.. not most people..they talk about a woman's hair being her 'crowning glory' so I wonder what that does to someone's sense of self when it is taken away...

Cookies n Cream

Thu, Apr 25 2013, 6:37 pm

tzfatisha wrote:

This is just so off.
You make it sound like a whole conspiracy theory.

amother

Thu, Apr 25 2013, 7:03 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

amother wrote:

I'm not satmar and I didn't want to go to college. 12 years of school was more than enough for me.
Dh who did not learn any secular studies in school can read and do math way better than me. While I got a 94 on my math regent, when it comes to 'basic math' my dh is def. The winner. He learnt all his math from gemara and is excellent at it!! He has an excellent way of talking and he learnt it all from artscroll...
Now, dh and I both have excellent non college jobs. I run a great camp and have 50 employees.
Dh has a position that is most suited for him.
Both us do not feel deprived with no college.

Anon cuz of relevant information

That's awesome!!! Really.
But for every couple like you , there are 50 couples struggling, who didn't make it . My husband went to PS k-12, and eventually went to Brisk.
Should we send all our children to ritzy upscale public schools in Connecticut and give them Art Scroll Gamarras with laptops full of shiurim???

True. I brought in my story here. Just showing that a couple does not need a degree to be succesful.
I didnt want to go to college and I totally understand the satmars that dont want to go either. Especially when they are sahm's with husbands bringing in the parnassah.
I dont see the big deal everyones making about their education. Other things I would consider a 'bigger deal'.

On another note, when I was a teacher (with no degree) there was a fellow teacher who was working towards her bachelors degree. Let me just tell you that she was not a good teacher. A degree ddoesn't get you succesful. Its hard work and talent. Especially when you spend four years giving you an 'education' that has zero to do with a professionm

amother

Thu, Apr 25 2013, 7:24 pm

Cookies n Cream wrote:

tzfatisha wrote:

This is just so off.
You make it sound like a whole conspiracy theory.

Can you explain what you mean by the bolded area?