Mishnayos and other Homework help....

amother

Tue, Nov 12 2013, 7:25 pm

I'm going anon here since I have told ppl IRL about this.
My son started mishnayos, and dh isn't home at night to review with him. I am trying my best, but I dont' understand the concepts, and frankly I am confused and bored by all the differing opinions. (I always just like the bottom line)
I wrote a note to the teacher to make him aware that dh isn't home to learn w/ ds, but he said I should use his translation sheets for help. That isn't any use bec. 1- they are in Yiddish (which is hard for me to read), and 2- I still don't understand the concepts.
What do other ppl do if your dh isn't around to study w/ ds? I know some ppl get a learning rebbe, but that isn't possible now for various personal reasons.
Also, he has a test tomorrow on 2 mishnayos- with 10 review pages all in yiddish to study. I feel like that is a huge amount of material for an 8 yr old. Am I crazy? When have standards gotten so high?!
Which leads me to my 2nd point- how much and how often should kids be tested in school (between 8-10 yrs old.) The 8 yr old kid has a spelling + either a math or grammar test every week- on multiple topics.
The 10 yr old has a test on the previous 3 parshios every week- not in chumash, I mean the parsha of the week. The regular chumash test was also about 5-6 pages long, full of things to memorize from the passuk and rashi.
Is this the new normal? When and why is school so difficult.
Don't get me wrong, I always liked school, studied hard and was in the top of my class. I even was valedictorian in HS- but this seems like alot of work.

amother

Tue, Nov 12 2013, 9:04 pm

Valedictorian in HS and you don't know that "a lot" is two words?

Who cares if it's the new normal? The fact is your son's class is learning it and he's losing out because he has no one to learn with him. If your dh is not home and you don't want ds to fail-and lose any self-esteem he has-then you must hire a learning rebbe for him, or get someone else to learn with him.

It's not a reflection of your abilities if you can't do this, mothers cannot be responsible for everything.

Whatever personal reasons mean, even if it means cutting down on food or basic necessities I would hire someone. You can't let him start failing from 8 years old!

amother

Tue, Nov 12 2013, 9:08 pm

Last year my DS told me his rebbe learned on the phone every night with 2 boys because their fathers were not able to do homework with them.

Find someone, maybe even a relative. Fax over the homework.

My DS's go to sleep later than they should because they wait for DH to get home from work. Some days the traffic is terrible and we have crazy mornings.

amother

Wed, Nov 13 2013, 8:25 am

OP here:
To the first amother- I have no idea why you are so nasty. Yes, I do know"a lot" is 2 words, and chose to write it as one.
I care what the normal amount of learning/testing is, because it will make a difference whether I decide to bring it up with the principals or not.
Lastly, my ds is far from failing, and there is no one here to learn with my ds other than me. I wasn't looking to hear 'get someone' bec. I can't. I was looking for ideas of what other moms do.....

Isramom8

Wed, Nov 13 2013, 9:30 am

Hi OP,

Yes, in schools with a high academic standard this is all the new normal.

Yes, it's a lot of pressure on the parents and kids. My DH is a community rabbi, he has Rabbanut semicha, and he finds the amount of material he has to go over with our son, and the amount of tests, to be really a lot. And the level to be very demanding.

There is no other way for your son to succeed in Mishna and Gemara without regular review with his father or another man who knows how to learn, like a kollel avreich.

I won the Mishna award when I was in 5th grade, and I've tutored Gemara in a seminary, and there is no way I could help my sons with the level of Mishna and Gemara they are taught.

This is the way high level cheders (yeshivos) are now.

My kids also have a lot of math tests, etc. We have sent them to math tutors. It costs, but there is no other alternative if you have your kids in academically focused schools.

One idea that helped our son was to write out the Gemara words and translations onto the computer. It helped get them into his memory.

anon for this

Wed, Nov 13 2013, 9:50 am

I'm a single parent. When my sons were learning mishnayos, I found that I was able to study with them using their translation sheets, but they learned in English, so it was easier. I don't learn gemara with them, though, I find tutors instead.

It sounds like your sons' education is more intense than that of my boys though. My 8-year-old hasn't started mishnayos yet (he'll start later in the year). Regarding secular subjects, my son has a weekly spelling test and probably a test every week in another subject (math, science, language arts).

If your husband is unable to teach your son, and you cannot find a tutor for him now, you may want to look for English translation sheets online or find a sefer that translates and explains the concepts in English. I know that you mentioned that you have trouble with the concepts but I found that once I understood the words the concepts were much easier. You may find this works for you too. Those were options I considered when my older sons started learning gemara, but then I decided I didn't want to invest the time/ mental energy to learn how (I never learned gemara in school myself).

I do agree that my children have more schoolwork than I seemed to have.

amother

Wed, Nov 13 2013, 10:21 am

thanks for the ideas and encouragement! dh can't learn in the morning either as he leaves at 5:30 am, and my son is not a morning person at 8 am- let alone at 5 am Smile

I know my dh has an english gemara; is there such a thing as an english mishnayos that not only translates but explains the concepts?

sarahd

Wed, Nov 13 2013, 11:17 am

It does sound like a major load for an 8 year old child. My son is in third grade and he has a test every week on 10 shoroshim for chumash plus the pesukim they learned that week. And a farher in mishnayos. Every so often he has a spelling or math test; sometimes he has a grammar test.

I sure am happy my kid doesn't have that amount of pressure. He knows his material very well, b"h, and he wouldn't know it better if he had more tests and assignments.

Isramom8

Wed, Nov 13 2013, 1:02 pm

Ruchel, it is a huge task on the father (or father substitute). It's limited to about six years though, from 3rd grade where the boys start Mishna through 8th grade when they take yeshiva exams.

Once a boy is yeshiva ketana (high school age), he is really on his own to keep up with the level of the place that has accepted him as being on the right level for that place.

The son has to be willing to work with the father. If their learning together is not a good match, then even if there is a father available it's better to hire a private tutor. With our son in 6th grade we're doing a combination - DH and another avreich switch off.

OP, maybe there is a community kollel in your area where an avreich would learn with your son at a minimal cost? Our community kollel that DH directs provides this service.

shalhevet

Wed, Nov 13 2013, 2:38 pm

Ruchel wrote:

But can every family afford one, or more, private teachers regularly for years?
Can a father physically have time for this with several kids?

real questions, I'm not familiar with this

You don't usually need hours every day with each child (unless a child has particular trouble). They usually learn a certain amount of material for the week. When OP said her son had all that mishna to learn for a test tomorrow, it is probably once a week. It is enough a few minutes each evening, and then a big review on Shabbos (or motzai Shabbos). As Isramom said, we are basically talking 3rd-7th grades, maybe 8th - although here the boys learn more in chavrusos that last year of cheder. So that's five years - on average most families will only have 2 boys that age (assuming they might have girls too), although, of course they might have 4....

OP, I beg you to get someone to learn with your son. Don't say you can't. If the reason is you don't have someone suitable, ask the school for help. If you don't have the money, live on beans and dress your son in gemach clothing, but don't skimp on his limmud Torah. Twice a week might be enough. You could start with that and see.

amother

Wed, Nov 13 2013, 6:30 pm

So he got his test back on mishnayos. He had 10 questions, each one worth 10 points?! He got 2 wrong- which I thought was great, but he got an 80. Wow, I had no idea the marking was so strict in 3rd grade. He was so upset- he said, I should've gotten a 97. Sad

Dh said he will try to learn w/ him while he is getting a ride home- on the phone. WE'll see how that goes.