Selling chometz such as pasta and flour?

shalhevet

Thu, Mar 22 2007, 3:40 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

(firstly, I retract my previous post...apparently there are those who hold flour is chometz gamur.)

Flour is not chametz at all. But if it came into contact with water for more than 18 minutes it is chametz, and bought flour is usually washed before packaging.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Mar 22 2007, 4:33 pm

shalhevet wrote:

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

(firstly, I retract my previous post...apparently there are those who hold flour is chometz gamur.)

Flour is not chametz at all. But if it came into contact with water for more than 18 minutes it is chametz, and bought flour is usually washed before packaging.

I'm obviously talking about bought flour Very Happy

There are those who hold either way.

Mommy3.5

Thu, Mar 22 2007, 5:22 pm

shalhevet wrote:

Mommy3.5 wrote:

as a side note, every grocery store sells its chometz, after peasach you will be buying the chometz that they sold and then bought back, thereby you will now be owning chametz that at was sold. So what is the difference between selling your own chametz, and using that after peasach, or getting rid of your chometz, only to buy chometz that was sold over peasach anyway?? Confused

It is not the same thing at all.

Owning chometz on Pesach is a Torah prohibition. People who are machmir not to sell 'real' chometz are choshesh (careful) to the very slight possibility that there is a problem with the sale. If there would be such a problem they would have chometz in their possession on Pesach.

Using chometz she'avar alav ha'Pesach (chometz which was in a Jew's possession during Pesach) is a gezeira (decree) made as a fine to 'punish' those who hadn't sold their chometz, that they would never be able to use it. If the store sells its chometz that has nothing to do with me - it's the owner's decision. If ch"v for some reason the sale would be invalid and I ate that chometz after Pesach I would be using chometz she'avar alav ha'Pesach, which is a gezeira and not an issur mi'dOraiysa (Torah prohibition).

So the groceries sale is always Up and Up, but your own, there could be a problem? Its exaactly the same thing.

shalhevet

Thu, Mar 22 2007, 5:30 pm

I think I explained. It's a chumra not to sell real chometz. It's up to the grocery owner what he does and he's certainly not doing anything wrong by not practising a chumra.

During Pesach there's a miniscule chance of a mid'Oraiysa (possible Torah prohibition) if someone sells their chometz. Which is the situation whoever does it.

After Pesach eating chometz which ch"v wasn't sold is a Rabbinic prohibition.

So for ME it's not the same - one is a safek mid'Oraiysa and one is a safek mid'Rabanan.

Not only that, but there are opinions that one shouldn't sell small amounts of chometz gamur, but for a hefsed merube (great loss) it is allowed.

TzenaRena

Thu, Mar 22 2007, 5:34 pm

I didn't read the whole thread, but in our shtar (according to the Alter Rebbe) it says "chometz hamedubak b'keilim", not the keilim themselves. However, that means you DON'T have to scrub off all chometz. (I like to anyway, but it's not necessary to take up your time with that, it's all sold anyway.)

mali

Sat, Mar 24 2007, 7:38 pm

TR, AFAIK, according to the Alter Rebbe's Shtar we DO sell the Keilim themselves. Nevertheless, the Rebbe specifically says we don't have to Toivel them because Tum'ah comes down to the Keilim only if the [gentile] was theoretically able to use them for things that are Ossur, but if the [gentile] couldn't have possibly done that because they weren't in his property, they don't become Tomey, and thus, don't need Toiveling.