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Chabad Article on Homosexuality and the Jewish Community



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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 21 2014, 10:42 am
http://www.chabad.org/library/.....y.htm

Question:

According to Jewish law, how should a person react to homosexual feelings? Do homosexuals fit into the Jewish community?

Answer:

You ask about feelings and law. But feelings do not fall within the domain of law. A person feels what a person feels. Then he has the power to decide whether he will act upon those feelings or… not. This is the human experience: desire, longing, wanting…and the law. Part of our development from childhood to adulthood is creating for ourselves a moral compass. Something that's internal. That which tells us right from wrong. And that moral compass is comprised of myriad components, but must be firmly grounded, always, in a system of values.

For Jews, the all-encompassing system is Torah law. Torah law governs every single part of living. And from the body of Torah law emerges a system of values - general, societal and personal. Sometimes, it's easy; we feel an affinity, for example, to the laws of tzedaka, or we feel a strong connection to the laws of Shabbat or brit milah. And sometimes, we feel something quite the opposite - we feel estranged or disconnected or personally deeply at odds with a law.

We feel what we feel. Some feelings we can change, and some we can't. Sometimes what we feel is subject to modification, and sometimes it's not. Totally and unequivocally not. And yet, the law is absolute.

As much as we know about human s-xuality, we don't yet know enough. We're all, as individuals and as a society, still learning. In the last half century, we've come a long way in our understanding of human s-xuality, and in redefining a cultural moral code. Some of what we've come to accept as a society is long, long overdue. And some of what we've come to accept undermines the very dignity of human s-xuality. But, we're learning.

We do know this, though: we know that among other s-xual behaviours, Torah law expressly forbids the specific act of male homosexuality.

And we do know this: Torah law forbids bigotry; homophobia is prohibited.

And we do know this: too many Jewish girls and boys, Jewish women and men, have suffered too much for too long. And we know that most of that suffering is caused by the environment around them. We do know this: when we become judges of another person, we behave contrary to Torah law.

And we do know this: A Jew belongs in a Jewish environment. Each of us, struggling or not, needs to be in a truly Torah-observant environment. And each of us is responsible for that environment - each of us is responsible for what we bring to that environment. When we bring ignorance, or cruelty or self-righteous judgment of others, we contribute to the sullying of a true Torah environment. When we bring the most ideal principles of ahavat Yisrael, respect for every individual, recognition of each individual's personal relationship with G‑d...when we bring the best of our humanity, as expected by Torah ideals, we contribute to a Torah environment that is healthy and wholesome.

Or perhaps your question is in regard to how we should react to the homosexual feelings of others? Or how we should react to someone who eats on Yom Kippur? Or someone who longs for the relationship with a man other than her husband? On this, the classic work known as the Tanya provides strong advice: Consider what it means to have such burning passions for forbidden fruit. Consider the day to day fierce and relentless battle demanded to conquer such passions. And then ask yourself, "Do I ever fight such a battle on my own ground?"

The Tanya continues to illustrate the many areas in which all of us can improve by waging at least a small battle on our own ground.

On your question concerning community: A Jew belongs within a Jewish community. There are no application forms and no qualification requirements. He's Jewish—that's where he belongs. Period. We all have our challenges, our shortcomings, our feelings...and our failures in battle as well...and with all that, we are a community of Jews.
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MaBelleVie




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 21 2014, 11:58 am
I think this topic is off limits on imamother...
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 21 2014, 12:03 pm
I love this article SO much! It is completely on point, compassionate, and understanding. Thumbs Up

I just wish more people could understand the issue this way.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 21 2014, 12:18 pm
MaBelleVie wrote:
I think this topic is off limits on imamother...


I thought debating homosexuality was off limits, not how to integrate homosexuals into our communities.
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 21 2014, 12:20 pm
MaBelleVie wrote:
I think this topic is off limits on imamother...


I know, yet this piece is SO dead on.

the new pope is following this exact path of acceptance. (and very loudly, I might add.)
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marina




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 21 2014, 1:24 pm
Quote:
And we do know this: Torah law forbids bigotry; homophobia is prohibited.
This is news to me. I wonder what the sources are here.
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Petra




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 21 2014, 1:40 pm
I really liked this article. If only others felt the same as the author.
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Rubber Ducky




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 21 2014, 2:02 pm
vintagebknyc wrote:
...the new pope is following this exact path of acceptance. (and very loudly, I might add.)
I like Pope Francis too, but I don't think we pasken by him... Wink
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vintagebknyc




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 21 2014, 2:20 pm
Rubber Ducky wrote:
I like Pope Francis too, but I don't think we pasken by him... Wink


I think you missed my point.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 21 2014, 2:37 pm
This was a well-written piece, but how is this new? Isn't this our perspective already? More than love the sinner, hate the sin - it's ACCEPT the person with inclinations toward a sin, but absolutely set the standard at Halacha.

Can I accept a "non practicing homosexual Jew" who is open about his s-xuality? No, but I'd have the same problem with a woman loudly proclaiming exactly what she does with her husband on mikvah night. That's your private struggle, keep it private. There is a place for modesty in this world.

Going with the theme of the article, we also know this: Modesty is a very central value to Judaism as well.
So, if a teenager struggling with homosexual feelings comes to a rav or therapist for help, I hope that person will have the attitude espoused by this article. In fact, the struggle against one's nature defines Judaism, so that person is a tzadik. His private struggle is between himself, his nature, and those helping him - his rav, his therapist, his confidantes - it's not for the front page of the newspaper.

On the other hand,
If someone wants an aliyah in shul while flagrantly breaking halacha (I am a man married to a man, I consider myself Orthodox, I want full membership in the congregation), sorry. Just like you can't wear leather jackets to a PETA convention, you can't openly live a lifestyle inconsistent with Judaism and expect full acceptance. I love you. You're my brother. I accept you have a major struggle, I accept this is a heart-wrenching life choice, but you have to make a decision here.
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mirror




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Nov 21 2014, 2:39 pm
Rubber Ducky wrote:
I like Pope Francis too, but I don't think we pasken by him... Wink


Reminds me of a joke:

A couple had a baby boy and decided to save money and hire a Galach (priest) to do the bris. They figured no one would ever know.

When the boy grew up, instead of singing "Hamalach Hagoel O'tee" (the angel who saves me)
he would sing:

"Hagalach Hamohel O'tee" (the priest who did my bris)
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amother


 

Post Fri, Nov 21 2014, 3:37 pm
Imamother, please add a lol button...
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amother


 

Post Sat, Nov 22 2014, 3:23 pm
debsey wrote:
This was a well-written piece, but how is this new? Isn't this our perspective already? More than love the sinner, hate the sin - it's ACCEPT the person with inclinations toward a sin, but absolutely set the standard at Halacha.

Can I accept a "non practicing homosexual Jew" who is open about his s-xuality? No, but I'd have the same problem with a woman loudly proclaiming exactly what she does with her husband on mikvah night. That's your private struggle, keep it private. There is a place for modesty in this world.

Going with the theme of the article, we also know this: Modesty is a very central value to Judaism as well.
So, if a teenager struggling with homosexual feelings comes to a rav or therapist for help, I hope that person will have the attitude espoused by this article. In fact, the struggle against one's nature defines Judaism, so that person is a tzadik. His private struggle is between himself, his nature, and those helping him - his rav, his therapist, his confidantes - it's not for the front page of the newspaper.

On the other hand,
If someone wants an aliyah in shul while flagrantly breaking halacha (I am a man married to a man, I consider myself Orthodox, I want full membership in the congregation), sorry. Just like you can't wear leather jackets to a PETA convention, you can't openly live a lifestyle inconsistent with Judaism and expect full acceptance. I love you. You're my brother. I accept you have a major struggle, I accept this is a heart-wrenching life choice, but you have to make a decision here.


As the daughter of a Chabad Rabbi (and Dayan) who runs a Chabad house shul, he has given aliyos to an openly gay man (although the man was not married to a man, so I can't tell you if that would change things, although probably not), as well as to people who break Shabbos and eat treif. As long as the person is not breaking halacha at that time, he is as Jewish as the rest of us, who also break halachos, so who are you to judge whether he is worthy of an aliya, and whether he regretted giving in to this desire or not, even if you are sure he will do it again soon...
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amother


 

Post Sat, Nov 22 2014, 6:22 pm
To amother above:I'm not judging, just wondering. Aren't there certain break-off points where if a Jew is over on that he is no longer eligible for aliiyos etc?
Not saying specifically gay issues, just in general.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Nov 22 2014, 6:48 pm
amother wrote:
As the daughter of a Chabad Rabbi (and Dayan) who runs a Chabad house shul, he has given aliyos to an openly gay man (although the man was not married to a man, so I can't tell you if that would change things, although probably not), as well as to people who break Shabbos and eat treif. As long as the person is not breaking halacha at that time, he is as Jewish as the rest of us, who also break halachos, so who are you to judge whether he is worthy of an aliya, and whether he regretted giving in to this desire or not, even if you are sure he will do it again soon...


I am quoting established Orthodox practice. I don't know the policy in Chabad, as I am not Chabad. (No disrespect intended. Chabad may have different menhagim and pasken differently) But as the daughter of a man who was fired from a pulpit for refusing to endorse violations of halacha, I honor the memory of my father, a man who stood up for his convictions.
I am not a rabbi - I cannot pasken. But I think it is hypocritical to say "I'm Orthodox - except I do as I please on one of the Big Three, accept me as I sin". I accept that you are a Jew. I accept that you are my brother. But I can't accept that you are Orthodox if you don't follow Orthodox practice.
(And yes, that goes for any violation of major halacha. Just because you wear the penguin suit or a streimel doesn't automatically qualify you as an Orthodox Jew.) But if you get up in shul and say "I'm a man, married to a man, honor my life choices...." you can have herring and kugel and some schnapps. But you can't expect me to endorse your choices.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Nov 22 2014, 7:21 pm
As the daughter of a Chabad rov who also runs a Chabad house as well as running a Chabad house myself, I would like to caution you as to making blanket statements about Chabad policy. Every single situation must be evaluated by a rov based on the circumstances.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Nov 22 2014, 7:38 pm
Immorality is bit not in the same category as eating Yom Kippur the Tochecha says the worst punishment for this
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Yael




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Nov 22 2014, 7:49 pm
I am locking this topic in order to prevent the inevitable debates from starting.
If you have anything to add please pm me.
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