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S/o And the vax discussion cont. - ultra orthodox dont vax?
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 04 2015, 11:51 am
dancingqueen wrote:
I do know people who have needed in utero surgery for issues that were picked up by ultrasound, so it would be hard for me to go with that ruling. If a pg is known to be high risk can exceptions be made or if the mom is just nervous?


Based on my understanding from my Rav it is not only high risk where it would be permitted but for any risk, even if minor, as long as the Dr thinks there may be a possible solution.

So for example (both true examples):
Dr thinks baby is growing too large and may require induction earlier to prevent c-section - yes U\S.
Mother was taking medicine that my be fatal to the baby, there is nothing to do to reverse possible damage (according to OB) - no U/S.

My rav does not believe it should be done for a nervous mother.
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Jewishmom8




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 04 2015, 12:34 pm
imaima wrote:
Did you feel in some way that I was talking about you and your friends in my post?


I am just israeli charedi and I wanted to say that most of us vax as far as I know.
I also wanted to add that yes there are people that don't want to have anything to do with the state. But they DO vax. They just pay for it themselves.
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imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 04 2015, 2:17 pm
Jewishmom8 wrote:
I am just israeli charedi and I wanted to say that most of us vax as far as I know.
I also wanted to add that yes there are people that don't want to have anything to do with the state. But they DO vax. They just pay for it themselves.


OK.
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Think1st




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 08 2015, 2:45 pm
Charedi newspapers , are mostly Pro-vax, it is more chalenging for a chareidy to get access to other sources of info. However there is a growing trend of spacing out, skipping & stopping to vaccinate due to some Rabanim, Doctors & activists publicizing their opposing view.

Hep B( a Primarily STD)
& Hpv ( can lead to Cervical cancer for those who don't keep TH ) are most frequently skipped,

Many who don't vax are afraid of the backlash & keep it private

Wherever you live just visit any gym,chiropractor or health-food store , you probably are more likely to find more non vaxers there, than in the MD's office , Hospital, or pharmacy


Last edited by Think1st on Sun, Feb 08 2015, 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Think1st




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 08 2015, 2:53 pm
flowerpower wrote:
I know two families that don't believe in vaccinations. They go all natural as they claim. I think they are nuts but they are very brainwashed. Everyone else that I do know, and I know a lot of people do vaccinate. Its like a tiny percentage that don't. I know in my daughter's school they don't allow you to come the first day if your aren't up to date on the shots.


Why call them nuts or brainwashed, do they appear physically unwell. why not sit down, you with your coke , they with their water-bottle.Have & relaxed discussion, you may end up respecting each other a little.
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mille




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 08 2015, 3:02 pm
Think1st wrote:
Why call them nuts or brainwashed, do they appear physically unwell. why not sit down, you with your coke , they with their water-bottle.Have & relaxed discussion, you may end up respecting each other a little.


Yes, because you've shown nothing but an abundance of respect to everyone on this website who opposes your viewpoint.
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Frumdoc




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 08 2015, 5:48 pm
Think1st wrote:
Why call them nuts or brainwashed, do they appear physically unwell. why not sit down, you with your coke , they with their water-bottle.Have & relaxed discussion, you may end up respecting each other a little.


If I sit down with you, with my water bottle, and you with yours, what should the first topic of conversation be?

Shall we discuss the definition of statistical significance?

Or confidence intervals, p values, standard deviations, relative v absolute risk and risk reduction, population demographics and risk benefit ratio?

Or germ theory, bacterial and viral infections, SIRS and other normal and abnormal responses to infection, immunoglobulins, and the innate and the adaptive immune systems?

I would be happy to volunteer my time to discuss these and more topics of relevance to you, on the basis that you commit to learning about Hashem's amazing gifts he has given us in terms of modern medicine with an open mind to the wonders I can reveal.

None of this is sponsored by a drug company (I don't even know anyone who works for one), or the government, or the CDC, or the CIA, or any other conspiracy you might imagine.

All I ask is that you come with an open mind to learn the scientific and medical knowledge I can share, and as long as you promise to pass on the knowledge, I am happy to teach you all those things you want to learn about how insulin works, how the body fights infection, how neurotoxins and cellular toxins work, all to the best of my ability.

We can review all those studies that concern you, and discuss the risks and benefits of any medical treatment you wish. If you want, I can introduce you to people who had childhood polio, or TB, or meningitis, or other diseases you want to learn about. You can volunteer to spend a shift with me working in the ED, and see how the nasty evil money grabbing doctors actually treat patients with minor and major illnesses (providing you get police clearance).

I can even take you to the Ebola ward, although it is empty right now, and you can talk to the doctors who were in West Africa treating hundreds of dying people.

Or the asthma clinic, where the vast majority did not have vaccinations as they were born long before they were routine.

Please let me know when you want to come, and we can sort a date out to start our educational program.



A free medical course, if you wish.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Feb 08 2015, 6:02 pm
Think1st wrote:
Charedi newspapers , are mostly Pro-vax, it is more chalenging for a chareidy to get access to other sources of info. However there is a growing trend of spacing out, skipping & stopping to vaccinate due to some Rabanim, Doctors & activists publicizing their opposing view.

Hep B( a Primarily STD)
& Hpv ( can lead to Cervical cancer for those who don't keep TH ) are most frequently skipped,

Many who don't vax are afraid of the backlash & keep it private

Wherever you live just visit any gym,chiropractor or health-food store , you probably are more likely to find more non vaxers there, than in the MD's office , Hospital, or pharmacy


Need to correct a misconception that comes up often on this site. Cervical cancer has nothing to do with TH. It is much more unlikely to get hpv if you only ever have s-xual contact with one person and he with you. So being orthodox carries a lower risk. However you really never know since unfortunately people do slip, or cvs get raped or he slipped up or cheated. Hpv is so prevalent and you don't know what life holds so it is worth it to get vaccinated.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Feb 08 2015, 6:14 pm
Why are people who make their own decisions, their absolute right, put down and ridiculed by some on this forum? Believe it or not, there are plenty of bright, educated people who don't vaccinate. I do, most of them, and I space them. They don't. It's their choice. At least discuss this respectfully. Why could you not be friends with someone who doesn't? If you are worried about your kids, ok, it makes sense. If it's because you disagree philosophically? Wow. How sad. So small-minded of you.

Also, what's with the generalizations? Ultra don't, chasidim don't, MO do, etc. It's an individual decision. Where is this stuff coming from?

Bash away 😈
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