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Kol ishah

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roza

Sun, Apr 17 2005, 4:41 pm

is there any difference from halachic point of view b/w married woman's singing and the girls (unmarried) singing infront of men? is not it kol isha -married woman, that they can't listen to?then do we just educate our girls about not singing infront of men, like we educate them to light shabbat candles?
all these are my questions.

stem

Sun, Apr 17 2005, 4:55 pm

Kol Isha is an issue from the time a girl turns 12 years old. It has nothing to do with her marital status.

roza

Mon, Apr 18 2005, 10:15 am

ok, but why hair are not an issue? it's also erva, no?

Motek

Mon, Apr 18 2005, 11:23 am

I checked in R' Falk's book. He says, Chazal conferred erva status to a married woman's hair. Chazal established that the voice of a woman or girl is erva.

Rivka

Mon, Apr 18 2005, 7:28 pm

I heard it's a girl. But if you have a choir of girls where not one girl sings alone then it isn't counted as kol isha coz no one can diffrentiate the voices with which girl and you can't really hear one voice.

gryp

Mon, Apr 18 2005, 10:14 pm

ill never forget the time I was on a frum bus in Israel and a few girls went to the front to ask the driver a question. They were talking (obviously) and the men (who sit in the front of the bus) started yelling "kol isha, kol isha, go to the back of the bus!!!"
shock

stem

Mon, Apr 18 2005, 11:03 pm

That man on the bus either did not know halacha, or was purposely trying to humiliate those girls. Mad

Motek

Tue, Apr 19 2005, 5:18 pm

the kol isha part sounds silly but the men were probably annoyed because on the frum buses the men are in the front and the women in the back and the girls went to the front, defeating the purpose of going on the frum bus!

gryp

Tue, Apr 19 2005, 6:04 pm

they were definitely annoyed, but what is a woman supposed to do when she needs to ask the driver a question? yell from the back? would that less kol isha than going up front and talking...?

Motek

Tue, Apr 19 2005, 6:12 pm

hmmm, definitely a shaila for a posek Wink

Rivka

Tue, Apr 19 2005, 6:25 pm

I think these buses with men at the front and women at the back sort of defeat the purpose when the loos are at the back and the men walk up to the back to go use the lavvy. I think the women should shout at them for walking in the women's part.
If someone wants to ask the driver a question and they go to the front of the bus it is a bit over the top to shout kol isha coz it is a load of cobblers. They could have said Shomer Aynayim, but then if they had a problem maybe they should have closed their own eyes and had ear muffs for their ears.

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