Peyos/Payis | Imamother

amother

Tue, Jul 03 2007, 5:18 am

My husband and I want our kids to have long peyos. (My husband has long ones.)
I think from when the kid is 3, you just let thier peyos grow.
My husband, on the other hand, said that its a big chillul Hashem when kids with long peyos act disgustingly, and to have long peyos, the kid has to be a well behaved kid, and act the part. My husband said not to let the peyos grow out until the kid proves that he's a good boy, and then as a reward, let him have long peyos, "Just like tatty".

On the other hand, I think that while my husband is right, that a kid with peyos has to ACT properly, and to grow out the peyos, and ingrain in the kid "You look like a tzaddik, now you have to act like a tzaddik too", and perhaps threaten to cut off the peyos if they don't behave like a boy with peyos should. (This is all before bar mitzva, because after bar mitzva there is a big issue with cutting off peyos.)

Who do you agree with? Do you agree with either one of us, or do you think peyos should not be something used for chinuch purposes?
(Peyos are NOT our family's minhag. My husband decided to grow out his peyos when he decided to be more spiritual, etc... Which is probably why he thinks the way he does.)

amother

Tue, Jul 03 2007, 5:24 am

While like anything else that creates a Yiddishe appearance (koppel, tzitzis, payos of any length, etc) should be a way to remind a child he is different and special and an opportunity when he is an appropriate age to teach about chillul Hashem I don't think you should ever threaten to cut off a child's payos. Besides the question of whether you would ever threaten to take away a koppel or tzitzis from a boy who wasn't acting with Yiddshe chein you I couldn't imagine cutting the payos. Also, it seems to me that it somehow belittles minhagim/traditions and perhaps even passes on the lesson that it is okay not to act like a Yid if you don't look like a Yid.

amother

Tue, Jul 03 2007, 5:28 am

OP here. No, but long peyos are hiddur mitzva, and not a mitzva itself, like a koppel and tzitzis.
In our opinion, when a kid has long peyos (NOT A CHIYUV IN ANY WAY) and behaves disgustingly, he makes a bad name for certain groups...
And when I say cut off peyos- I mean just cut off the long part, not completely cutting it off, but rather, leave it a halachic length, but not as a hiddur.

amother

Tue, Jul 03 2007, 5:29 am

amother wrote:

Ok, I understand you're against threatening to cut them off- but how about not growing them out until the kid "proves he's worthy of it"?

BinahYeteirah

Tue, Jul 03 2007, 6:10 am

Kids have ups and downs in their behavior (you should have only ups!). How long would it take to prove he's worthy? What if the child is an angel at age 3-4, but then goes though an unpleasant phase or something? Then you'd just have to leave them (since you can't cut them off)? I just don't see how you could know at a certain point that a child is well behaved and will continue to be so from that point on.

Obviously, children should be taught to behave and should be supervised properly. If the parents do these things and someone gets a negative impression because a child acts badly from time to time, then the person probably doesn't think much of the groups of Jews that have this minhag to begin with.

shalhevet

Tue, Jul 03 2007, 6:18 am

amother wrote:

and perhaps threaten to cut off the peyos if they don't behave like a boy with peyos should.

OMG, I once had a babysitter who said this to ds and I NEVER used her again. I think it's the most terrible thing to say to a child (apart from which he might just get the wrong idea and decide to cut off his peyos (or his friend's, brother's etc) completely one day as a game.

Anyway, never, ever threaten something you won't carry out.

Having regular (not long, but just according to the halacha) peyos is a mitzva and you can use this to encourage ds - what a tzaddik he is etc.

I would leave the whole peyos inyan (how long, how thick, behind or in front of the ears etc) to your husband just for the sake of shalom bayis and not undermining his authority. It's a men's thing. Let him do what he wants (within halacha of course) with his son.