Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Shabbos, Rosh Chodesh, Fast Days, and other Days of Note
A moral dilemma to fast or not to fast?
Previous  1  2



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h



WWYD Would you fast or not
Of course I'd fast, its 17th of Tammuz  
 12%  [ 5 ]
No I wouldn't if the Rav didn't say I have to.  
 87%  [ 34 ]
Total Votes : 39



amother


 

Post Tue, Jul 03 2007, 12:19 am
chocolate moose wrote:
Married women, maybe but girls? Not in Lubavitch.


CM even within Lubavitch there are families where the girls don't either fast the more minor ones....

I think I once heard that Mrs. Sternbergs father (Rabbi Gurary) didn't hold of girls fasting but maybe someone could double check that.
Back to top

sarahd




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 03 2007, 6:59 am
shalhevet wrote:
amother wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
CAYA wrote:
Even if I'm not preg I dont fast, my dh thinks fasting is not for women, I feel weird not fasting cuz as a girl my father was very strict with it, and since I'm married I only fast y'k and tb.


Is your dh a posek? If not maybe you should ask a rov, because this is against halacha. (You could mention to the rov how dh feels if you think there is a shalom bayis issue involved.)



This is not against halacha. This is a certain shita. My dh also doesn't let me fast besides for YK and T"b. He says a mother with little kids needs koyach to take care of her kids. This is not just the way he 'feels', he takes it from somewhere (dont remember where).
He definitely lets my girls fast.


There is no difference in the halachos of fasting between (non-pregnant, non-nursing) women and men.


Shalhevet, I wouldn't be so quick to say it's against halacha for women/girls not to fast. There are entire communities in which this is the practice and I find it difficult to believe that the rabbonim of these communities are unaware of the practice, or that they wouldn't say something if it was really against the halacha.
Back to top

STRONGMOM




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 03 2007, 8:10 am
I was at the end of my 9th month last year on 9 av and the rav told me not to fast and to make sure to eat a lot.
I went into labor during the day and gave birth on 10 av. thank gd I had eaten before as I really needed my strength
Back to top

greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 03 2007, 8:36 am
I have trouble fasting so it is extremely hard even on yk and tb let alone all those other fast days ... so I don't because I can't ... but I remember when I was due in tishrei on yk I just stayed in bed ...

what is wrong with fasting half a day ... it was something we were always taught to at least try for chatzos ...
Back to top

Mommy3.5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 04 2007, 9:57 pm
it is very easy for a pregnant women to dehydrate, especially during summer fasts. I would not attempt to fast in such a situation. BTW women in their 9th month on 9 Av can get a heter for fasting, if you have not given birth by then please ask again.
Back to top

chocolate moose




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 04 2007, 10:02 pm
greenfire wrote:


what is wrong with fasting half a day ... it was something we were always taught to at least try for chatzos ...


who taught you that? our rov says that if you don't fast, you don't fast. nothing to do with chatzos.
Back to top

shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 05 2007, 2:00 am
sarahd wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
amother wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
CAYA wrote:
Even if I'm not preg I dont fast, my dh thinks fasting is not for women, I feel weird not fasting cuz as a girl my father was very strict with it, and since I'm married I only fast y'k and tb.


Is your dh a posek? If not maybe you should ask a rov, because this is against halacha. (You could mention to the rov how dh feels if you think there is a shalom bayis issue involved.)



This is not against halacha. This is a certain shita. My dh also doesn't let me fast besides for YK and T"b. He says a mother with little kids needs koyach to take care of her kids. This is not just the way he 'feels', he takes it from somewhere (dont remember where).
He definitely lets my girls fast.


There is no difference in the halachos of fasting between (non-pregnant, non-nursing) women and men.


Shalhevet, I wouldn't be so quick to say it's against halacha for women/girls not to fast. There are entire communities in which this is the practice and I find it difficult to believe that the rabbonim of these communities are unaware of the practice, or that they wouldn't say something if it was really against the halacha.


I don't find your argument convincing because a rov with sechel doesn't always say things that people won't listen to anyway if they don't come and ask.

Could you look up (or ask your husband to) if there are any chassidish halacha books which say a woman (healthy, non-pregnant, non-nursing) doesn't have to fast? The SA says just the opposite.
Back to top

shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 05 2007, 2:04 am
Mommy3.5 wrote:
it is very easy for a pregnant women to dehydrate, especially during summer fasts. I would not attempt to fast in such a situation. BTW women in their 9th month on 9 Av can get a heter for fasting, if you have not given birth by then please ask again.


Perhaps that's what your rav says, but please don't make it sound like every rav says a pregnant woman doesn't have to fast on TB. The 9th month is actually less problematic than 6th, 7th and 8th and I haven't heard of rabbonim (I'm not saying your rav doesn't hold differently) who give blanket heterim for pregnant women not to fast on TB. Obviously a woman who has any kind of medical problem/ bad experience regarding dehydration/ fasting in the past or who feels bad on TB itself should ask a rav.
Back to top

mimivan




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 05 2007, 2:15 am
agree with Shalhevet...do people really think their rabbis are interested in putting them in danger? My Rabbi told me to "try" although I am nursing...which means that I could drink something if I felt I was in danger...I think we can have a bit of trust in our rabbis...
Back to top

BrachaVHatzlocha




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 05 2007, 9:01 pm
amother, what did you decide?
I was told NOT to fast (except YK and Tisha B'Av) while pregnant or nursing (even if NOT in 9th month).
Back to top

sarahd




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 05 2007, 11:05 pm
shalhevet wrote:
sarahd wrote:
Shalhevet, I wouldn't be so quick to say it's against halacha for women/girls not to fast. There are entire communities in which this is the practice and I find it difficult to believe that the rabbonim of these communities are unaware of the practice, or that they wouldn't say something if it was really against the halacha.


I don't find your argument convincing because a rov with sechel doesn't always say things that people won't listen to anyway if they don't come and ask.


I hear your taina, but how did this (widespread) minhag come about in these kehillos without any rav ever being mocheh? Do you think the Minchas Elazar or the Satmar Rebbe would have been afraid to protest if their chassidim - and their rebbetzins and daughters - had been doing something against halacha? They never did, that I know of, and I've never heard anyone say before you say that it's against the halacha.

Quote:
Could you look up (or ask your husband to) if there are any chassidish halacha books which say a woman (healthy, non-pregnant, non-nursing) doesn't have to fast? The SA says just the opposite.


Is there such a thing as a chassidish halacha book? Confused Most rabbanim I know of don't pasken from halacha books anyhow; they pasken based on their knowledge of Torah, halacha, etc.
Back to top

amother


 

Post Fri, Jul 06 2007, 12:07 am
Quote:
I don't find your argument convincing because a rov with sechel doesn't always say things that people won't listen to anyway if they don't come and ask.


Who said people dont ask??? They definitely do, and my dh also did. There are many, many rabanim that pasken that married women dont have to fast (even if not preg. or nursing).
Back to top

Mama Bear




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 06 2007, 12:14 am
I dont know the source for it, but my father never let me fast the minor fasts even as a single girl. and he is a pretty well read and ehrlich talmid chochom!
Back to top

mimivan




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 06 2007, 1:45 am
I wonder why Esther haMalcha was known for her fast if it is not the avoda of women (not talking about preg or nursing) to fast??

Ironically, I don't know many women (me included.. if preg or nursing b'h) who fast tannis Esther!!
Back to top

sarahd




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 08 2007, 2:31 pm
I was discussing this inyan with my husband and he said he can think of two possible reasons for this heter:

1) As the generations have become weaker, women are considered not to have the koach to fast as well as men.

2) Women are involved in childcare, which is more important than fasting.

My husband cited the name of a Rav of the Badatz, Eida HaChareidis who paskened that women do not have to fast, whether or not they are preg/nursing. I imagine the rav knew what the Shulchan Aruch says.
Back to top

sarahd




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 08 2007, 2:32 pm
mimivan wrote:
I wonder why Esther haMalcha was known for her fast if it is not the avoda of women (not talking about preg or nursing) to fast??

Ironically, I don't know many women (me included.. if preg or nursing b'h) who fast tannis Esther!!


Maybe that's why it rated a mention in the megillah - because it was so unusual! Very Happy
Back to top

Mommy3.5




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jul 08 2007, 8:50 pm
shalhevet wrote:
Mommy3.5 wrote:
it is very easy for a pregnant women to dehydrate, especially during summer fasts. I would not attempt to fast in such a situation. BTW women in their 9th month on 9 Av can get a heter for fasting, if you have not given birth by then please ask again.


Perhaps that's what your rav says, but please don't make it sound like every rav says a pregnant woman doesn't have to fast on TB. The 9th month is actually less problematic than 6th, 7th and 8th and I haven't heard of rabbonim (I'm not saying your rav doesn't hold differently) who give blanket heterim for pregnant women not to fast on TB. Obviously a woman who has any kind of medical problem/ bad experience regarding dehydration/ fasting in the past or who feels bad on TB itself should ask a rav.


Did you read my post? I think not.
Quote:
BTW women in their 9th month on 9 Av can get a heter for fasting, if you have not given birth by then please ask again.
Back to top

shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 09 2007, 10:26 am
Mommy3.5 wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
Mommy3.5 wrote:
it is very easy for a pregnant women to dehydrate, especially during summer fasts. I would not attempt to fast in such a situation. BTW women in their 9th month on 9 Av can get a heter for fasting, if you have not given birth by then please ask again.


Perhaps that's what your rav says, but please don't make it sound like every rav says a pregnant woman doesn't have to fast on TB. The 9th month is actually less problematic than 6th, 7th and 8th and I haven't heard of rabbonim (I'm not saying your rav doesn't hold differently) who give blanket heterim for pregnant women not to fast on TB. Obviously a woman who has any kind of medical problem/ bad experience regarding dehydration/ fasting in the past or who feels bad on TB itself should ask a rav.


Did you read my post? I think not.
Quote:
BTW women in their 9th month on 9 Av can get a heter for fasting, if you have not given birth by then please ask again.


If I answered your post, don't you think I read it?? If you read it with a different inflection (without the stress on the can) it makes it sound like all women in their 9th month will automatically get a heter. You said you wouldn't attempt to fast, not that you will ask a rav. Like I said before, an otherwise healthy woman in her 9th month is not really at any risk, apart from that of giving birth... (as I did one motzai YK) Many women in their 7th and 8th months can fast okay too - obviously depending on the circumstances.
Back to top

southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 09 2007, 11:01 am
Fasting can cause dehydration. I remember one YK in EY when it was over 100 farenheit and many homes had no AC. The rabbis told the pregnant and elderly to drink water on that YK. Our rebbitzen needed medical care after Tisha B'Av because she was fasting during pregnancy and running around after the older kids in the heat. She became dangerously dehydrated. The rabbi said after that that when there was a question of sakanah on Tisha B'Av, he would look for a heter for a pregnant woman.
There was a story one year on YK when a woman who was pregnant and going through a lot of stress with a handicapped child, killed the child in anger on YK.
Each woman needs to access her own situation and no one should say that fasting while pregnant is completely safe. Obviously, if she is able to stay in bed and let others manage the children, she will minimize the danger from the fast.
Back to top

Mommy3.5




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jul 09 2007, 8:45 pm
shalhevet wrote:
Mommy3.5 wrote:
shalhevet wrote:
Mommy3.5 wrote:
it is very easy for a pregnant women to dehydrate, especially during summer fasts. I would not attempt to fast in such a situation. BTW women in their 9th month on 9 Av can get a heter for fasting, if you have not given birth by then please ask again.


Perhaps that's what your rav says, but please don't make it sound like every rav says a pregnant woman doesn't have to fast on TB. The 9th month is actually less problematic than 6th, 7th and 8th and I haven't heard of rabbonim (I'm not saying your rav doesn't hold differently) who give blanket heterim for pregnant women not to fast on TB. Obviously a woman who has any kind of medical problem/ bad experience regarding dehydration/ fasting in the past or who feels bad on TB itself should ask a rav.


Did you read my post? I think not.
Quote:
BTW women in their 9th month on 9 Av can get a heter for fasting, if you have not given birth by then please ask again.


If I answered your post, don't you think I read it?? If you read it with a different inflection (without the stress on the can) it makes it sound like all women in their 9th month will automatically get a heter. You said you wouldn't attempt to fast, not that you will ask a rav. Like I said before, an otherwise healthy woman in her 9th month is not really at any risk, apart from that of giving birth... (as I did one motzai YK) Many women in their 7th and 8th months can fast okay too - obviously depending on the circumstances.


The OP was not talking about 9 Av she was talking about 17 tamuz, and she had a heter. No I would not attempt to fast on a fast that I was told not to fast on. I would not attempt on a small fast when I know what happens to me when I fast pregnant or nursing. ( av is a different story all together.

I would never suggest that every women in her 9th should not fast on 9 av.
Back to top
Page 2 of 2 Previous  1  2 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Shabbos, Rosh Chodesh, Fast Days, and other Days of Note

Related Topics Replies Last Post
The sugar dilemma - can you share your opinion?
by amother
38 Today at 5:44 pm View last post
Camp Dilemma
by amother
6 Today at 11:46 am View last post
Any fleishig fast food place open today?
by amother
11 Sun, Mar 24 2024, 7:53 pm View last post
Which magazines or sites can I write for fast?? 1 Fri, Mar 22 2024, 11:24 am View last post
After Fast- Healthy and Filling Dinner Ideas
by amother
1 Thu, Mar 21 2024, 7:54 am View last post