Poor middle class | Imamother

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Forum -> Household Management -> Finances

Poor middle class

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amother

Lavender

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 3:04 pm

So many things just don't add up""
. to poster who said you are $600 deficit each month because all of the money is going to full tuition, well the tuition board also looks at how you spend your money.
. If someone spends on vacations, on cleaning lady, lavish simchas....then yes, that family can pay full tuition if making a lot of income too. So I'm sure almost all your money goes to tuition, but the deficit is probably due to the fact that you can probably cut back on other things!!! Do you mean there is nothing that you can cut out such that you are extremely in debt???
. meanwhile on the other spectrum, hud is in NJ and I live in N.Y. in ny there is no government rent being paid anymore, unless a person lives in the government housing projects, rare to find Jews there!!! So, if there's a family of 4, making $40,000, they may be eligible for food stamps and insurance but after paying $1500 a month for rent,
And $1000 tuition, there's not much left after for the rest like diapers, toiletries, car insurance, gas, tolls, dentist expenses, car maintenance, school expenses like teacher gift money, pa fees,lice checks, supplies, trips....and simcha money for bris/kiddish/gowns for weddings...
. the above is an estimate. most schools charge more tuition and I know that playgroups charge around $400 a month and don't give tuition breaks!!many of these families live in houses and pay more than $1500 rent!!
. so after all these expenses, the money doesn't add up. It is impossible to make so little in NYC and qualify for benefits and live in rented house/big apt. And send kids to playgroup, have cleaning lady....if making that little salary!!! Either the parents are helping or they are not reporting everything!!
. I always wondered how they do it. I'm not jealous because I'm grateful for what I have. Very few frum ppl. Actually live in a tiny apt, no cleaning lady..,no playground, no day camp....thats the only way its possible to live such low income!!
. I am jealous of one thing which is being able to stay home and still pay bills for day camp, hired help, big apts....nice wedding gowns(rented), new clothes for shabbos....something doesn't add up!!I don't want to be eligible for programs but I do want to know how to live on such low income with one person home and still have all "luxeries"-(I don't mean vacations)
. example,my friends ' dh works for around $1500 each month but their rent is more than that!! The other spouse is home and they get Medicaid and food stamps. I don't understand how they pay their rent!!!I am definitely not jealous but wondering??how she does it, but I don't talk to her about finances--she thinks I have it great because making a "normal" salary but I work like a "slave" for the money she's home!!

op, you stated you and your spouse are both working and still can't make ends meet. I understand you!!its hard to work hard and still not be able to afford a "break"---I have the same issue!!
Right now, my sibling is on hud in a huge house, I don't know how they'll survive if they are not eligible in the future. Maybe moving to smaller house will help you have less monthly expenses!!
. I wish everyone the best and hope that everyone can have parnassa--
.
.

watergirl

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 3:06 pm

sky wrote:

But that money is freed up for other living expenses.

How does ine keep the hud money? It goes right to the property owner. I used to work in a section 8 tenants placement company so we worked with this. Not in NJ - but still. The tenant never sees the check.

out-of-towner

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 6:37 pm

And correct me if I am wrong, but at least in NY, Section 8 is very difficult to get onto at the moment, as their slots are very limited. And there is a cap on how much the rent can be, and it is really not much. I interned for a program that provided services for a specific Medicaid-funded initiative and one of the hardest things about getting people onto our program was being able to get approval for Section 8 and finding housing that met the requirements for it.

amother

Forestgreen

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 7:19 pm

out-of-towner wrote:

I'm going to link to a HUD page that explains how HUD does it's calculations as well as a link to NY and fair market rents as determined by HUD. I think one of the difficulties for people in NYC is the federally subsidized housing market which further complicates the scenario. Occupancy limits also complicate things in NYC and the boroughs. HUD will not permit a family to over occupy a unit in order to limit cost. So you cannot rent a cheaper two bedroom unit for a family of 6.

In smaller towns and different states, HUD is a very manageable program that benefits large numbers of people who are struggling. Waiting lists are longer in some areas than others. In some states it is illegal to discriminate against HUD recipients. YMMV

https://www.hudexchange.info/m.....imits

imorethanamother

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 8:52 pm

I think the OP needs to wake up. These government programs are slowly going to dissolve and everyone will get kicked off. Medicare and Medicaid are changing to managed care, and everyone is about to get a rude awakening.

So your sister still has HUD? Not forever she won't. Everyone needs to figure out how to manage without government assistance, because that's the way things are going. Be grateful you're starting now. HaShem provides - you would have gotten the same money with HUD (less) than without. just pray He gives you money for your needs.

Chaya123

Sun, Aug 14 2016, 12:04 am

Thanks for the sympathetic and not so sympathetic responses. I will not retract anything I mentioned as this is the reality for me. To assume I was involved in some sort of scheme is outrageous- not sure where that comes from. Either way we lost something worth a lot which we once had and managing without it is extremely and almost unbearably difficult.

amother

Saddlebrown

Sun, Aug 14 2016, 12:43 am

amother wrote:

Yeah, there's nothing I can cut out save for going on a diet of rice and beans which isn't happening. We don't have a cleaning lady and haven't made any simchas in year. And when we did, they certainly weren't lavish. We haven't gone on vacation in a couple of years. We do have a decent amount of savings due to our incomes, and when the tuition committees see that, they rightfully decide we should use that money, which is why we don't get any assistance.

I'm not complaining; I'm thankful that we can live in such a deficit this year and still live comfortably enough. I'm thankful that our years of frugality allowed us to build enough savings to weather to more challenging times. And when the baby is out of daycare and in school, expenses will drastically decrease, unless we have another Smile

I was just making the case that even at an "upper class" income, it's a daily struggle. We don't have a high enough cash flow to go on vacation, let alone even cover our monthly bills for our large family. So it's not so shocking that the newly middle class OP is struggling.

Welcome to the hamster wheel of frum life, OP. If you were expecting differently, I can understand why this adjustment is difficult for you. Allow yourself time to grieve that and feel sad. But then daven for the ability to accept and embrace your life. And for parnassah.

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, Aug 14 2016, 8:52 am

I used to be on medicaid and a few years ago food stamps. We're BH off amy assistance, It's very hard as we work crazy hours and can't afford food and currently have no medical insurance.
I keep thinking how we can scrape $300 for a overnight getaway, but not going to happen anytime soon..... We made a homemade simcha, kept to close family and very few friends.

My friend who lives entirely on gov't programs, gets monthly cash assistance, makes fancy smites, catered in a nice hall, band, photographers etc. new clothes.
She pays zero expenses at all, somehow she's fully covered section 8, generous food stamps, medicaid, cash assistance and her vouchers cover her tuition. She somehow send her kids to overnight camp and daycamps.
She just started working for cash as he youngest is in school to have extra money around.

There are times, I'm "jealous", but not really because as hard as I have it, I'm on an upward swing, I hope within next year or so, not to be struggling as much.
I own my home BH when she can't in her situation.

Long term, working has more benefits than taking government handouts. Some months, I need to tell this to myself a thousand times!

I have not bought takeout in years, not an option AT ALL.
I work long long hours but I'm working towards a goal, my time and dedication to work will pay off one day. Maybe not as much as other places as I work in non profit, but definitely more fulfilling than when I worked for a private enterprise.

amother

Ruby

Sun, Aug 14 2016, 9:27 am

To the pp:
As I mentioned upthread, I'm also in this hole now and was kicked off medicaid this yr. I also can't afford insurance for more than one of us and had no insurance for a while.
Then my husband found something called liberty share. Its not a for-prophet insurance; it's a group in which every member pays a nominal monthly premium and basically pays for other members' medical needs/ bills. There's a $500 deductible and they also don't cover any ongoing conditions. This obviously makes it less than ideal but I definitely feel better having this than having no insurance at all!

And best of all, it's just $300 a month for a couple and $500 for a family!

amother

Seafoam

Sun, Aug 14 2016, 9:53 am

Did not read through all posts so I apologize if I am repeating or veering off topic, but in response to the OP, we live very decently and probably considered living well to many others, but vacation is almost not in our vocabulary at this point. I don't know how everyone else affords it either. But I've learned that everyone chooses to spend differently and yes a lot of people have more money than we do! I've never been on programs though, and I am grateful for that, because I see how many people get stuck in that rut where "working is a luxury". The ridiculousness of that (truthful) statement does not need elaborating. So even when we were struggling financially, I was never jealous of those too stuck in programs that they would actually lose from going to work to provide for their family. We were created to provide for our family and you should be proud that you are doing that.

I sympathize with you though. It's really tough.

Eta: this is not to put down people on programs in any way. It's really just in direct response to the op.

amother

Firebrick

Sun, Aug 14 2016, 10:36 am

Deleted

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, Aug 14 2016, 4:35 pm

I know for a fact there are people on cash assistance longer than 60 months.

I know quite a few people on vouchers, it's supposedly supposed cover after school care but many schools take it as payment in NYC.

I also know a few people who own homes in others names and get section 8 as rent to themselves.
I know some people who appear well off, dress really well, amazing shaitels, nice cars using EBT. I worked for a Dr where so many wealthy looking people had Medicaid.

I don't know everyones story, but there is a lot of fraud out there in our frum communities.

Amarante

Sun, Aug 14 2016, 6:24 pm

Since the figures are from the Cato Group, they are probably skewed. I have no knowledge of intricacies of weifare since I have never received and dint work in the system, but my understanding is that the 69 month rule is limited to federal cash assistance and that there are many exceptions since which toll the running. Most blue states would have more generous benefits. For example, Medicaid was not extended in most red states.

I assume the figures are somewhat accurate and represent a real economic incentive fir these whi have neither the skills or the desire to obtain skills in order to make a better wage. And of course,cut doesn't factor in the real cots of working such as clothing, commuting, child care as well as increased food costs for most people since some meals will be eaten out and/or there might be more spent on food that is quicker to prepare even if not take out.

And these figures are for two child households so dollar amounts I suspect of food assistance and medical costs would be more valuable for larger families.

The Rhode Island total comes from starting with the $6,648 a year in cash welfare that a single parent with two children could receive, which is the only unrestricted cash that recipients would see. (It's also 34 percent less than what recipients got in 1995, adjusted for inflation, according to Cato.)

Then you add in $6,249 per year in food stamps (now called the SNAP program), $12,702 in housing subsidies, $11,302 as the cost of buying health care coverage comparable to Medicaid, $275 in heating assistance, $300 a year under the Emergency Food Assistance program (TEFAP), and $1,156 in food under the Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) program for pregnant women, new mothers and children up to age 5.

The total -- $38,632 -- is equivalent to what a single parent with two children would get to keep after taxes if the parent earned $43,330 a year, or $20.83 an hour for a 40-hour work week, Cato said.

S

amother

Khaki

Tue, Aug 23 2016, 3:28 am

I've heard of people not getting legally married and then claiming benefits as a single mom. I don't understand why someone would want to live off govt programs but be able to make a lavish simcha or buy nice cars- do thy have no pride? I had to get Medicaid when I got pregnant, as our insurance had horrible coverage and we were getting bills for over $1,500 every month for basic appointments. I would be so embarrassed if anyone knew! I hate having to take a handout- to me it's a nebach type of thing, not something I would be jealous of.

amother

Crimson

Mon, Feb 06 2017, 6:58 pm

I have been in the past on medicaid but then got a job . Simple pay but with medical insurance. This is it. Bli neder never again medicaid! Better earn less (chas vesholom but not depend on medicaid) my husband who according to torah has to be main parnassa bringer,can try any job opportunity without thinking if it will harm the medicaid level. So my advice is as a woman get a job that gives you medical commercial insurance so your husband can advance in parnossa. I know tons of people faking and not sleeping because of it.

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