Was Netanyahu Offensive?

abound

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 3:45 pm

When Netanyahu met his pilot who flew him to Greece he asked her what does she do with her four kids when she is on the job.
I know he meant it as a compliment as a salute to her, like wow you have four kids and are still managing a career like this.
Her answer was on target and I thought it seemed like she did not like this question. Since to a mom asking about how she juggles kids and a job is never a comfortable topic with strangers.
I also thought that if it would be a man with four kids, it would not get asked at all.

(for those that are not up to date:
Netanyahu flew to Greece with a frum woman, a mother of four kids piloting the plane, it made news in Israel)

amother

Lemon

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 3:51 pm

abound wrote:

I also thought that if it would be a man with four kids, it would not get asked at all.

Mothers being the primary caregiver IS more prevalent over fathers. That's a fact.

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 3:52 pm

abound wrote:

Abound, the pilot wasnts just frum, she was the first (but as netanyahu said, not the last) charedi pilot. That is significant, I think, in the conversation.

I think people are reading WAAAAAY too much into this. I think Netanyahu was just making conversation with this pilot. Thats all.
I think there was no issue here at all.

Fox

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 4:00 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

I think people are reading WAAAAAY too much into this. I think Netanyahu was just making conversation with this pilot. Thats all.
I think there was no issue here at all.

Agreed. No offense was intended and apparently none was taken. And given that Israel is constantly surrounded by people who want to do a great deal worse than offend them, I suspect the standards for offense are a bit higher.

Besides, we can't have it both ways. We can't get excited whenever there's publicity about a frum woman achieving something interesting or unique -- but then be offended when someone comments on how interesting or unique it is . . .

Last edited by Fox on Thu, Jun 15 2017, 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

Dandelion1

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 4:01 pm

I'm so of sick of the word offensive already. Do we really want to live in such a vanilla existence in which everyone is afraid to talk about anything that feels personal or real?

Iymnok

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 4:09 pm

I haven't seen anything about this. But my gut reaction is that he wanted to thank her and express how impressed he was with her on a couple fronts.

Was she insulted?
I assume not. Actually, I'd guess that she has had a similar conversation quite a few times.

MagentaYenta

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 6:12 pm

ally wrote:

I don't think it's offensive - more of a demonstration of how strongly gender inequality is ingrained into society.

^This.

I daresay it's likely that for many years this position was off limits to any woman.

iluvy

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 10:15 pm

The stereotype that women are more likely to be primary caregivers may be true, but it hurts women, and public leaders (even elderly ones) should not be reinforcing it.

Imagine living in a world in which your husband felt equally responsible for taking care of your children. The work of arranging appointments, playdates, making sure they have all the clothing they need for the new season, handling bullying or conflicts with a teacher, health/developmental issues... would fall equally on you and him. If you had an opportunity to make more money at work or do more interesting work, you could take it without things falling apart at home, because you had an equal partner to balance the load. If your responsibilities in another area were overwhelming you, you wouldn't have the stress of knowing that everything at home depends on you.

Of course, some women do live in this world. But every comment -- especially a public one from a prominent figure -- reinforcing the woman-caregiver stereotype takes us further away from it, and makes women's lives more difficult and less fair.

tigerwife

Thu, Jun 15 2017, 11:32 pm

I disagree. Despite what we would like reality to look like, most women do take on the greater responsibility of their household. So to ignore this would take away from this woman's accomplishment. My respect for female entrepreneurs and professionals is far greater than my respect for their male counterparts.

seeker

Fri, Jun 16 2017, 12:50 am

I'm assuming that pilots flying internationally have to be away from home for days at a time. I can well imagine this being hard on a family whichever parent is the pilot. I think it's very hard for a mother when her husband travels a lot for work. I could totally see saying "Wow, he's typically away for half a week? That's hard. How are you and the kids managing?" So why is it suddenly all prickly if you're talking to the parent who's the one doing the traveling and saying, in a friendly conversational way, "So what's doing with the kids at home? How are they holding up without you?" Or, if it's a 2-working-parent household, "who's with the kids while you're here?" These are such normal questions and I don't see why they need to be construed as a gender issue. If parents have kids and they are away from their kids then it's friendly to ask after their kids when you see them. Period.

abound

Fri, Jun 16 2017, 1:53 am

The logical part of me says it was just chitchat and a salute to her for managing well. But her answer showed that she has had more than her share of these questions where people were questioning if it is good for her kids.
"יש להם אבא"
Either way, good for her for following her dreams and doing her thing.