Masser 1.need a Rav to ask 2. has anyone tested HKBH w this?

amother

Ginger

Thu, Aug 24 2017, 12:53 am

amother wrote:

To op, what does it mean that hashem will make rich those who give maaeser??? Before tuition, I calculated measer. Even when I was single and babysat, I gave maeser, but I didn't become rich, I was very poor when I was single and couldn't afford clothes in high school but I always gave masser.

I will still give maaser and ill try to train my children to give but do you think that all rich people have given masser so they are rich and those struggling to make ends meet are struggling bc they don't give maaser regularly??

I don't know What

I did say above that I thought maybe it could mean that you were 'sameach bchelko'. But I have been reading around on the internet and it seems like yes indeed you are allowed to test H in relation to this mitzvah.

salt

Thu, Aug 24 2017, 2:42 am

amother wrote:

I don't know What

I found this on the web (http://ph.yhb.org.il/08-06-08/) :
Sorry not answering your question OP, I don't have a name of a rav, but just for the interest of the other posters on this thread.

Hebrew followed by my translation:

תשובה: דרשו חכמים על הפסוק (דברים יד, כב): "עַשֵּׂר תְּעַשֵּׂר – עשר בשביל שתתעשר". וכן הסביר רבי ישמעאל ברבי יוסי, שעשירי ארץ ישראל נעשו עשירים בשביל שהפרישו מעשרות (שבת קיט, א). ומבואר בתלמוד (תענית ט, א), שאמנם ככלל אסור לנסות את הקב"ה, שנאמר (דברים ו, טז): "לֹא תְנַסּוּ אֶת ה' אֱלֹוהֵיכֶם כַּאֲשֶׁר נִסִּיתֶם בַּמַּסָּה", אולם בדבר זה, שאדם יפריש מעשר ויהיה על ידי כך עשיר אפשר לנסות את הקב"ה, שנאמר (מלאכי ג, י): "הָבִיאוּ אֶת כָּל הַמַּעֲשֵׂר אֶל בֵּית הָאוֹצָר וִיהִי טֶרֶף בְּבֵיתִי וּבְחָנוּנִי נָא בָּזֹאת אָמַר ה' צְבָ-אוֹת אִם לֹא אֶפְתַּח לָכֶם אֵת אֲרֻבּוֹת הַשָּׁמַיִם וַהֲרִיקֹתִי לָכֶם בְּרָכָה עַד בְּלִי דָי".

Chazal say on the pasuk in devarim 14, 22 "Asser Ta'asser" - "you shall surely give your tithes" - Asser Bishvil She-titasher - loosly translated as "give a tithe in order that you will become rich" - the word Asser (tithe) and the word Ashir (rich) are the same root, so it's a kind of play on words that Chazal is using to interpret the pasuk in Devarim.

Rabi Yishmael in Masechet Shabbat 219:1, says "the rich of Eretz yisrael became rich because they took maser"

And it says in Masechet Tanit 9:1, that even though it is forbidden to try Hashem, as it says in Devraim 6,16 "do not try Hashem as you tried Him in Massa", however, with giving maser in order to become rich, one is allowed to try hashem, as it says in Sefer Malachi 3,10 "Bring the whole tithe into the store-house, that there may be food in My house, and try Me now, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall be more than sufficiency. "

salt

Thu, Aug 24 2017, 2:58 am

Someone on this thread mentioned being rich is being happy with one's lot.
I think you're right - difficult to understand the 'testing' aspect. It's obviously not so simplistic.

Even when the navi says it, in what I quoted above, it's on a more of a nationalistic level, not an individual level.

But we could look at it this way (just my interpretation) -- I think, one who gives tzedaka, identifies and understands the lot of others, and that other people's lot may be less than his lot, and therefore by giving to others, he is able to recognize what he does have from Hashem, an this enables him to appreciate his lot more.
Therefore by giving tzedaka, one becomes Happy with one's lot, and therefore feels rich!

Hope that makes sense Smile

ora_43

Thu, Aug 24 2017, 4:35 am

tichellady wrote:

I know that. Don't see why that makes a difference in terms of what I said. Maaser is actually a minhag according to most opinions.

Are you sure it's most?

Tzedaka is a mitzva d'oraita and according to the rav I learned about this from, ma'aser is the standard amount for tzedaka - barring extreme circumstances like inability to pay for one's own basic needs.

I don't doubt that others hold differently but I'm not sure it's really just a small minority of rabbis who hold "my" way. I don't recall ever hearing a rabbi say maaser is only a minhag, and I've heard many rabbis talk about it.

Maybe it differs between communities?

salt

Thu, Aug 24 2017, 4:56 am

ora_43 wrote:

Maaser is not the same mitzvah as tzedaka.
Tzedaka is from last week's parsha - re'eh - can't remember the pasuk - it's like about reaching out your hand to the needy.
Maaser is actually a mitzvah deorayta on field produce - giving a 10th to the leviim because they don't have a Nachala.
And it was extended to maser kesafim - to apply to any income too - not sure if miderabanan or minhag. But not from the Torah.

ora_43

Thu, Aug 24 2017, 5:31 am

salt wrote:

I know.

I'm talking about maaser as a limit for tzedaka, not saying maaser=tzedaka. If you give even 10 shekels, that's tzedaka. But then the next time you meet a needy person, you're still obligated in tzedaka.

There are various opinions about where the point is after which a person can say, "yes, there are still people out there needier than me, but I'm keeping the rest of my paycheck for myself." Some people say that for the average person that point should be at 10% - which is also maaser.

So maaser itself might be a minhag, but it's linked to a Torah mitzva. According to this opinion.

I have to correct my previous post, though, since I did find sources for rabbanim in my community (dati leumi) saying maaser is a minhag for some people (Rabbi Dov Lior and Rabbi Yitzchak Ben Yosef), depending on family tradition.