Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Interesting Discussions
Imamothes please identify ur 'sector'..
  Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10



Post new topic    View latest: 24h 48h 72h



Which Jewish sector do you identify urself as being part of?
Litvish  
 13%  [ 40 ]
Yeshivish  
 18%  [ 55 ]
Chassidish  
 35%  [ 109 ]
Modern orthodox  
 18%  [ 55 ]
Orthodoz  
 6%  [ 21 ]
Reform/Conservative  
 0%  [ 0 ]
Neither- Please specify below  
 7%  [ 23 ]
Total Votes : 303



CDL




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:30 pm
simcha2 wrote:
Then you are calling yourself not orthodox as you are purposefully maligning and speaking loshon hora about other yirei shamayim yidden and violating v'ahavta l'reicha kmocha (hiding behind amother....).

(No, I'm not really calling you not frum, just pointing out the fallacy in your argument).

Ok, I don’t understand this. First of all, hi, this is my screen name, although I don’t understand how I am violating veahavta lereiacha kamocha by being amother. Second of all why is what I said Lashon harah? Am I not allowed to say that one who intentionally violates torah prohibitions is not a yarei shamayim (your word choice)? Does that make any theoretical conversation about orthodoxy vs. non orthodoxy lashon Harah? Third of all, if I knew what I posted was lashon harah, I would never have posted it. If I was convinced you are correct, I would take down my post. This is precisely my point!
Back to top

watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:33 pm
LovesHashem wrote:
"Taseh licha rav"

and isn't there a gemarah about listening to your rabbi even if he says left is right and right is left?

Not amother, but ok. Thats your source? Ok. Find yourself a Rav. Not that his word is halacha. And if it were - who says mine is wrong and only YOURS is right? And we wonder why Moshiach isnt here?

A page or 2 ago someone posted the poem “Moshiach’s Hat”. Did you read it?
Back to top

sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:36 pm
What an ugly, nasty, hateful place this site has become.
Back to top

amother
Ivory


 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:39 pm
LovesHashem wrote:
"Taseh licha rav"

and isn't there a gemarah about listening to your rabbi even if he says left is right and right is left?
we don’t pasken halacha according to Gemara. And who said Aseh Lecha Rav means letting a Rav make all decisions for you? I agree with the concept - I’m sure nearly everyone does - but how far does one take it? How far MUST one take it?
Back to top

amother
Lilac


 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:40 pm
OP here..I feel bad that this thread has gotten so antagonistic and I hope people weren't hurt. Please lets all remember some of the rules

1) Remember that an attack on your opinion is NOT an attack on you, personally. Don't take everything said to heart and you'll enjoy yourself more.

2) Try not to judge people by their posts. Be tolerant of other posters viewpoints.

3) Avoid stereotyping and sweeping generalities, such as defining whole groups' behaviour by the behaviour of some. Many types of women are represented on Imamother; you never know which poster you may offend.
Back to top

keym




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:41 pm
sequoia wrote:
What an ugly, nasty, hateful place this site has become.


I really hope this is not the whole site. Just certain topics that get everyone's goat. But I agree with you. Im reporting my thread because I really dont think there will be any positive benefit in continuing this conversation.
Back to top

sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:43 pm
amother wrote:
OP here..I feel bad that this thread has gotten so antagonistic and I hope people weren't hurt. Please lets all remember some of the rules

1) Remember that an attack on your opinion is NOT an attack on you, personally. Don't take everything said to heart and you'll enjoy yourself more.

2) Try not to judge people by their posts. Be tolerant of other posters viewpoints.

3) Avoid stereotyping and sweeping generalities, such as defining whole groups' behaviour by the behaviour of some. Many types of women are represented on Imamother; you never know which poster you may offend.


Mmm... thanks, problem solved!!!!

I’ve been on here for more than NINE YEARS, and I can assure you, there used to be a lot more mutual respect.

But yeah, posting some bs “rules”, anonymously no less, just fixed everything.
Back to top

Laiya




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:52 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Thank you. That is what I thought. I also thought she was completely wrong. I feel like great big rabbanim hold many rabbanim, from different walks of orthodoxy, in high regard. What the other poster wrote is hopefully bullocks.


I remember reading that even though R' Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld and R' Kook were vigorous opponents hashkafically, it was known that they held each other in very high esteem.
Back to top

amother
Lilac


 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:53 pm
Thanks for the bash Sequoia- ill try and ''remember that this attack is NOT an attack on me, personally. ''
Back to top

shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:54 pm
Laiya wrote:
I remember reading that even though R' Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld and R' Kook were vigorous opponents hashkafically, it was known that they held each other in very high esteem.
Exactly. And that is by definition, how a gadol / rabbi should be acting.
Not this invalidating one's ways or invalidating one's rabbanim Rolling Eyes Mad
Back to top

sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:58 pm
amother wrote:
Thanks for the bash Sequoia- ill try and ''remember that this attack is NOT an attack on me, personally. ''


Oh, no one is bashing you...
Back to top

amother
Lilac


 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:01 pm
sequoia wrote:

But yeah, posting some bs “rules”, anonymously no less, just fixed everything.


OK then..
Back to top

chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:04 pm
amother wrote:
in my opinion it doesn’t work like this. If you intentionally break rules, I have a hard time calling you Orthodox. If you inadvertently do so, then thats different in my opinion. For example: if I think that I can’t be bothered or it’s hard for me to light shabbos candles, I don’t think I can call myself Orthodox. If I forget, then that’s a mistake. If I speak Loshon harah intentionally - I say it’s just too hard for me, I’ll focus on tefillah - I don’t think that’s how it works. It’s very nice to focus on tefillah, but being orthodox means following the rules. I can’t eat at McDonald's when traveling and consider myself Orthodox. I just don’t see how that works.
Now, sometimes there are lenient opinions. Following a leniency doesn’t make you not Orthodox, if it’s backed up by an orthodox Rabbi. In this category is not covering your hair. It’s ridiculous to choose a halacha, and proclaim that if you follow other poskim - who hold differently than you, or even differently than the majority - your out of the sect.
* off topic, and controversial, but this is why I personally don’t think a man married to another man, is considered orthodox - even if he follows all other halachos perfectly.


I am not justifying women who do not cover their hair - although they consider it the right thing to do - but I understand them, there are certain things I do in my practice that are also not the right thing - just not as public. I don't feel very comfortable posting them here under my SN, because these are obviously not things I am proud of. In a community were most/all women who may be very very very pious and halacha observant in almost all other aspects of Judaism, don't cover their hair - actively covering your hair is a very hard thing to do. it's also easy to talk yourself into thinking that it is probably not that big of a deal halchicly if no one else is doing it. Yes, it is a dissonance, but we're human, we all have a dissonance we're living with.
For one it is covering their hair, for another it is davening the required prayers, or remembering to bentch, or not scrubbing off a stain on fabric on shabbat, or whatever it is. If you are lax on one thing that doesn't negate all the other areas where you are observant. yes, following the halacha of covering your hair is important - but it's not the be all and end all of religious practice. Other than on this site, I've never really spoken to women who don't cover about their reasons for not covering. For all I know they all follow the reasoning of those poskim who do not require head covering for married women.
It is contentious but for many generations large communities of very frum women did not cover their hair and that has remained a norm among many communities today. I don't think that is a good enough excuse for me not to cover my hair. The fact that my grandmother and great grandmothers did not cover did not make them non-Orthodox - those were the community norms in their times. So I can understand how to someone who grew up in such a community covering would be such a completely foreign idea.
I'm pretty sure my point was not properly made, but I hope you understand that life is complicated and complex.
Back to top

amother
Ivory


 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:17 pm
chanchy123 wrote:
I am not justifying women who do not cover their hair - although they consider it the right thing to do - but I understand them, there are certain things I do in my practice that are also not the right thing - just not as public. I don't feel very comfortable posting them here under my SN, because these are obviously not things I am proud of. In a community were most/all women who may be very very very pious and halacha observant in almost all other aspects of Judaism, don't cover their hair - actively covering your hair is a very hard thing to do. it's also easy to talk yourself into thinking that it is probably not that big of a deal halchicly if no one else is doing it. Yes, it is a dissonance, but we're human, we all have a dissonance we're living with.
For one it is covering their hair, for another it is davening the required prayers, or remembering to bentch, or not scrubbing off a stain on fabric on shabbat, or whatever it is. If you are lax on one thing that doesn't negate all the other areas where you are observant. yes, following the halacha of covering your hair is important - but it's not the be all and end all of religious practice. Other than on this site, I've never really spoken to women who don't cover about their reasons for not covering. For all I know they all follow the reasoning of those poskim who do not require head covering for married women.
It is contentious but for many generations large communities of very frum women did not cover their hair and that has remained a norm among many communities today. I don't think that is a good enough excuse for me not to cover my hair. The fact that my grandmother and great grandmothers did not cover did not make them non-Orthodox - those were the community norms in their times. So I can understand how to someone who grew up in such a community covering would be such a completely foreign idea.
I'm pretty sure my point was not properly made, but I hope you understand that life is complicated and complex.
yes, I get it! Hence I differentiated between covering Hair, and other things like that in which there is a basis in halacha for leniency, and things that are issurim according to everyone.
Back to top

chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:31 pm
amother wrote:
we don’t pasken halacha according to Gemara. And who said Aseh Lecha Rav means letting a Rav make all decisions for you? I agree with the concept - I’m sure nearly everyone does - but how far does one take it? How far MUST one take it?


Aseh lecha rav - is from Pirkei Avot. It is part of a list of good things a person should do - aseh lecah rav ukneh lecha chaver, etc. In no way is that halacha.
Yes, finding a teacher for guidance in halacha and Jewish practice is a virtue, it's good advice and a good way to practice halacha. Does that mean that we must defer all judgment to a "gadol" no. Does that many great rabbinical scholars are infallible or that we should conceive of them as so - of course not.
Unfortunately, I have witnessed great disrespect from chareidim towards non-chareidi great rabbanim. I don't know if the gedolim don't appreciate their Torah, but certainly many times they are disrespected and portrayed as invalid rabbanim - I could only assume this is in line with at least some of the chreidi spiritual leaders. It is unfortunate but true - this is not to say they do not respect their learning and knowledge on an individual level bu their political views are so repugnant to them that as a rule they are portrayed in the public as so-called rabbis.
In my experience on an individual level there is a lot of respect, especially when people are exposed to talmidi chachamim from another stream of Judaism but when considered in the framework of politics - they are disregarded.
Back to top

chanchy123




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:38 pm
amother wrote:
yes, I get it! Hence I differentiated between covering Hair, and other things like that in which there is a basis in halacha for leniency, and things that are issurim according to everyone.

But once an entire community makes the same transgression it's really hard to judge this transgression the same way you'd judge any other transgression.
I don't know what led frum women to stop covering their hair during several decades - but that was the reality in many many communities (although not all communities) it is an historic fact. It would be unfair to judge this like you would judge any other transgression - regardless how strong it is.
Again - I'm not making excuses here - I'm not saying this behavior is ok - I'm just saying it doesn't take you out of the fold - it's not deal breaker.
Back to top
Page 10 of 10   Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 Recent Topics




Post new topic       Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Attn Jewish Music Experts: help me identify this song 22 Thu, Jun 01 2023, 3:47 pm View last post
Experienced moms! Please help me identify this-
by amother
21 Fri, Mar 17 2023, 3:00 pm View last post