Article: Ex-Chereidim cannot save liberal Judaism

33055

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 9:39 am

southernbubby wrote:

I did not say that leaving the derech meant drug abuse but as the netflix movie stated, many end up on drugs or incarcerated. When people leave the derech and have no place to go, no job, no skills, no proper English, etc, the next step is sometimes street life and drugs. They are separate issues but one can lead to another. I am sure that there are plenty who went OTD and got advanced degrees in law or medicine and never touched drugs or went into degenerate lifestyles. I mentioned it because it sometimes happens.

I see plenty of drug use with ex-hassids and those with one foot still in that world. Once they break boundaries, they aren't sure of when to stop. I see the drug use among functioning ex-hassids. By functioning, some of them even have nice parnosas. But they travel in druggie groups with the families tagging along. They want to be cool.

What they don't understand is how obvious the drug use is.

southernbubby

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 1:02 pm

kjb wrote:

Surely one of the reason that OTD kids from very RW backgrounds end up with disastrous life outcomes is because they suddenly find themselves alone in the secular world with no appropriate life skills, no understanding of the culture, no social networks and no family support? It’s not surprising, really.

The ones that are able to join another stream of Judaism, how ever liberal, are at least part of some kind of community that they can relate to. Surely that’s better?

And I can’t really understand the hatred of footsteps either. IT picks up these lost kids and helps them negotiate a very cold and lonely world. Surely that’s a good thing?

Footsteps allegedly served treif at their events and it was very obviously treif such as pork.

Optimystic

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 6:25 pm

southernbubby wrote:

https://forward.com/scribe/390015/ex-haredim-cannot-save-liberal-judaism/

The article was written by an ex-Chabad Jew, who now attends a Conservative synagogue with his wife and kids.

The premise of the article is that liberal Jewish movements are failing and losing members and that ex-hareidim could breathe fresh air into them, however, the majority of those who went OTD, are not looking for a replacement religion and reject liberal Judaism as fake.

He ends up by saying that it is patronizing to assume that liberal Judaism needs the ex-hareidim but he believes that the ex-hareidim do need the liberal community.

Question #1: are those who go OTD better off in liberal Jewish communities or are they better off remaining unaffiliated?

Question#2: If you answer yes to question #1, how would you go about recruiting the ex-hereidim into liberal Judaism?

Question#3: Do you agree with the premise of the article that liberal Jewish groups have noting to gain from the ex-hereidim?

Question#4: Would those who go OTD and are using drugs or are otherwise in danger of being sucked into a destructive life be better off in liberal Judaism, even though those forms of Judaism do not promote the fact that the Torah was given by Hashem or that the mitzvahs have to be fulfilled?

Question#5: Are those movements really dying and should they be trying to recruit members, especially those who left Orthodoxy?

Guess what?? I have no answers or strong opinions on this and admit that I don't know all of the ins and outs of this situation. Halachically, I think, anyway, that there is the opinion that Judaism that isn't true to the Torah is worse than no Judaism at all. Psychologically, however, it may provide at least some tie to Judaism that would keep the person anchored in the Jewish community, increasing the possibility that they would someday return to the Torah way of life. So that brings up back to question #1.

(1) Depends on the individual and the community. In my experience, Chabad is perfectly comfortable with people of all levels of observance, and is far more welcoming than many Conservative communities.

(2) Again, it depends on the person. I have friends across most movements, and I do think any Jewish connection is better than none. For some women I know, egalitarian is more important than welcoming. She is not going to get over her mechitza aversion without a stronger connection to Hashem, and for her, maybe leading services helps her form that stronger connection. After that, she may want to know more about what Hashem wants from her, and maybe it leads her back.

(3) No, but in my experience, most liberal shuls are very hostile to anyone who is even respectful of an observant lifestyle, let alone maintains any connection to it. Liberal shuls have much to gain if they would extend their openness and acceptance to the right as well as they do to the left. I am not holding my breath. I know far more former Conservative Jews in Orthodox shuls than vice-versa.

(4) As others have said, any community is better than none. Save their life first, and worry about bringing them back second.

(5) My impression is that Conservative is dying, and Reform is morphing into a new paradigm of unrecognizable. While it would be in their interest to recruit members from across the Jewish spectrum, I wouldn't say they should recruit anyone until they at least be a little more open to the idea that the Author of the universe also authored the Torah.

southernbubby

Tue, Dec 19 2017, 6:35 pm

Optimystic wrote:

The author of the article left Chabad. Those who leave Chabad to go OTD didn't feel accepted or comfortable there.