Help me explain "Ashmodai" to my granddaughter

Jewishfoodie

Mon, Feb 05 2018, 7:25 pm

I feel so uneducated here but my granddaughter heard a story about Ashmodai, the demon, and she has a hundred questions about him. Thing is, even though I loved learning 'nach' I am not sure I have the stories straight in my head. Anyone out there know some accurate stories about Ashmodai? Sorry.. I don't want to just tell her what I remember.. Which could be faulty... TIA

Jewishfoodie

Mon, Feb 05 2018, 8:14 pm

Thanks. I did that too but some were from not so reliable sources and I'm trying not to mess her up. I once Googled a story about the Baal Shem Tov because I had to use it in something I was working on and after I sent it on, I found out it wasn't actually the Ball Shem Tov who it happened to, so I'm wary..

Jewishfoodie

Mon, Feb 05 2018, 9:03 pm

amother wrote:

Just don't. I was ten years old and a boy told me about SD I couldn't sleep for nights because of it

Thanks. You're probably right. I was trying to put a good spin on it for her but I don't have enough knowledge about it to do that. She was pretty frightened about him "walking in the sand and he had chicken feet".. Her words, not mine. So I figured if there's something nice and short I can tell her to alleviate her worries, I would. Thus far, it's terrifying ME. She wants to know if he's still "alive"

trixx

Mon, Feb 05 2018, 9:58 pm

He is the king of demons and comes up when shlomo wanted to find the shamir worm to cut stones for the BHMK. You can reference the little midrash says for a child friendly version of the story. Later on (not in the midrash says) he tricks shlomo and takes the throne from him and it is from or maybe during this experience that a cynical and jaded shlomo is said to have written koheles.

enneamom

Mon, Feb 05 2018, 10:01 pm

I've always heard that we don't have to worry about these things anymore, since they're not a problem nowadays. Here's something interesting along those lines:

https://judaism.stackexchange......23525

Jewishfoodie

Mon, Feb 05 2018, 11:22 pm

Thanks so much.. Gonna do some more research and try to find out if I can tell her definitively that he's gone.. I don't like scaring her but I hate lying even more. One day when she's older, she'll remember this. Why would a kid repeat such a story anyway?! I knew it couldn't have come from a teacher! Ashmodai scares ME!

Jewishfoodie

Mon, Feb 05 2018, 11:25 pm

trixx wrote:

The part of the story she seems to know is how Shlomo Hamelech found out that it was Ashmodai. And how no one believed that Shlomo was Shlomo Hamelech and he had to wander... Etc..

imasoftov

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 7:24 am

"There are some stories that have made it into our tradition but they're not true just like (insert name of story she knows). So don't worry about it, there aren't any demons".

amother

Pewter

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 7:36 am

imasoftov wrote:

"There are some stories that have made it into our tradition but they're not true just like (insert name of story she knows). So don't worry about it, there aren't any demons".

is that true though? I remember my dad telling us that chazal (or maybe a anshei Knesset hagedolah? Not sure)scared them away to a forest so we don’t have them anymore in today’s day and age.

Jewishfoodie

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 8:50 am

imasoftov wrote:

"There are some stories that have made it into our tradition but they're not true just like (insert name of story she knows). So don't worry about it, there aren't any demons".

I hate to ask, but is there a source for that? That demons don't exist? That would be awesome.

enneamom

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 10:34 am

Jewishfoodie wrote:

I hate to ask, but is there a source for that? That demons don't exist? That would be awesome.

I think it's a complicated topic. I don't know how someone can say that a medrash is not true, but there seems to be a lot of debate about this. Rambam seems to say that there are no demons or magic, but it might not be so simple. Basically, sounds like something to ask your husband or someone who learns gemara.

enneamom

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 10:38 am

Quote:

The Talmud (Sanhedrin 66b) relates how a witch once wanted to cast an evil spell upon Rabbi Chanina. He mocked her by proclaiming the verse “there is none besides Him [G-d]”. With this he disarmed the evil forces of the occult by reaffirming G-d’s Absolute control of the cosmos. “If G-d desires that I live,” said Rabbi Chanina, “then all your efforts are for naught. And if you are successful in harming me, you should know that this is due to His royal decree. Then you will merely be the medium for His will to be fulfilled.” The existence of evil forces is only to the extent that man gives them existence. But they do not have a free hand; they do not have any autonomy! This sage dismissed the forces of magic as non- existent by lending them no credence.

https://torah.org/torah-portio.....aera/

LiLIsraeli

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 10:56 am

I remember reading a book about this when I was younger and I found it fascinating! It was a series of 4 books, one pink, yellow, green, and blue, and it had stories and midrashim from Tanach. I think it was called "In the Footsteps of the Prophets" but I can't remember and I can't find anything about it. If you can find something like that, it may help explain.

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 11:12 am

amother wrote:

is that true though? I remember my dad telling us that chazal (or maybe a anshei Knesset hagedolah? Not sure)scared them away to a forest so we don’t have them anymore in today’s day and age.

sounds like dad was, like OP, trying to figure out a way to help a child sleep at night.

Jewishfoodie

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 11:16 am

LiLIsraeli wrote:

Thanks so so much! She LOVES stories and that might just be the answer! If the level is low enough I can just read to her.. (and maybe learn in the process Wink

)

ra_mom

Tue, Feb 06 2018, 11:18 am

I would explain the concept of Hashem giving the world equal amount of potential for powers of evil as the powers of kedusha at any given time.
Today we don't have access to powers of kedusha like putting the shem Hashem on one's farhead and being able to fly, we don't have neviyim and the ruach hakodesh they had, and we don't have devils anymore either.
This is how I was taught.