Computers | Imamother

Seraph

Sun, Jun 10 2007, 5:27 am

My husband read an article in the Hebrew Yated Neeman a couple of days ago, and it was discussing computers and chinuch. (Not even the internet aspect, but just stam having a computer in the house.)

Whats your take on computers and chinuch?
From what I see it...
I don't plan on having internet in my house when I have kids (unless at that point it was for work). Or maybe if I had internet, it would be dial up, so that I'd have to pay each time I'd use it, so we would be less inclined to go online often but still have the option when neccesary.

I don't think theres a specific problem with having a computer in the house when there are kids around, however...
My husband said that when there is a computer, kids tend to get obsessed with the computer, use it to play games obsessively, etc, and end up having their lives revolve around the computer.

I say so long as you have a computer, you just make sure that theres no games on it, just tell your kids "This computer doesnt have games" and don't allow disks of computer games into your house to install them.

My husband thinks that if you must have a computer in the house, have it in a place away from public veiw, or if its a laptop, to fold it up and put it away when not in use...

What do you think?

I think computers are a valuable tool (even with no internet), especially for writers, etc. and as long as you show your kids that its used for that, for constructive purposes and not games, I think its not a problem chinuchwise.

hila

Sun, Jun 10 2007, 6:07 am

It is really fake if one does not adnmit to kids that computers have uses, and in this day and age EVERYONE should be able to use one.

BAsic stuff - like installing a program, cleaning up teh hard disk, moving photos around should be taught in all schools, and all adults should know too. If my mom at 80, can deal with a PC then anyone can.

I dont think that we can prevent the next generation ffrom being computer savvy , nor should we. It would be like if our parents had never let us use cars, orepreviously preventing teh use of electricity.

Anything can be used badly, or well. It is up to you to guide the children in how they use tools.

If you think games are harmful, then limit games. However some games help develop word skills and maths skills. It is up to you as a parent to set limits and be firm about enforcing them. That goes in all things - not just computers

Getting rid of computers is a way of killing the messenger.

suomynona

Sun, Jun 10 2007, 6:10 am

Quote:

My husband thinks that if you must have a computer in the house, have it in a place away from public veiw, or if its a laptop, to fold it up and put it away when not in use...

actually, it's much better to have it in a public place so no one can do anything in private.
You have to realize, that by the time your kids are old enough to use a computer, there might not even be dial up. I just heard that in a few years, wireless internet will probably be available for everyone to use. (I know that in my old apartment we were able to access wireless from someone in the neighborhood).
All these internet Kinnusses (plural?) are to show you that your kids can outsmart you and connect to the internet even when you don't think they can. And I would say that goes for installing games too.
Aside from internet and games, one other issue is to think about is that every computer comes with a DVD player now.
Aside from those 3 issues, I don't see a problem with having a computer in the house for word processing. But I don't see it as a positive thing for chinuch, only something that's around the house due to necessity.

Seraph

Sun, Jun 10 2007, 6:20 am

suomynona wrote:

Quote:

My husband thinks that if you must have a computer in the house, have it in a place away from public veiw, or if its a laptop, to fold it up and put it away when not in use...

actually, it's much better to have it in a public place so no one can do anything in private.

I don't think that was what he meant. He meant like in some families, they have a TV in the living room, being the center of attention and family life... He doesn't think a computer should be that.

(We have a laptop, so he was specifically refering to putting it away when not in use.)

Btw, Hila, I'm not so against constructive/learning games, rather waste of time games. And even constructive games should be limited, IMHO.

shayna82

Sun, Jun 10 2007, 12:00 pm

if strict rules are not enforced, then ya, ending up with children obsessed with games online can very well happen. I dont have that issue now, but when it does come up, online gaming will be a reward, not a birthright. more and more, kids are having social issues and academic issues, and I believe strongly its from too much t.v and too much computer/game boy...

everything in balance is my stance. If you pretend it dosnt exsist theyll see it at school or at a friends house, and then it becomes a "he has it, why cant I"

GR. is right. computers are used all over the world, w/o them, nothing would run... think about it.

Ruchel

Mon, Jun 11 2007, 4:05 am

Cell phone: only when really needed, can only call and receive call from some numbers

Comp: games only when the child reads very well and has developed a liking for books, internet with the program that gives you screenshots and what the kid typed and of course a filter, taken away at first "offense"

Tv: with the ad blocker, blocked after 8 pm (I think) and before 8 am, I still have to check if you can allow only some things, it would be great, like allowing cartoons and harmless tv shows and movies

Game boy and smaller stuff: Only given to the child when he is allowed to play (after homework), I know many parents who keep that kind of things in their room (door locked with key)

But the first and most important thing is to explain WHY you do that, how it is for the child's protection. If you just say no, some personality types will do it in other houses.

Motek

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 7:59 pm

hila wrote:

BAsic stuff - like installing a program, cleaning up teh hard disk, moving photos around should be taught in all schools, and all adults should know too.

Interesting, what you call basic. I've been using a computer for years and don't/can't do any of those things. However I am Internet savvy, use Microsoft Word, know how to record (free) songs, know various shortcuts ...

miriamnechama

Wed, Jun 13 2007, 9:45 am

ok we have a computer and internet which we only use asadsl cuzdh needs it for work. we got rid of all the games though and I limit them on the videos, even with vieos I only have kosher stuff my miami concerts, ybc, my sil's wedding breslov videos, ( breslov if your interested in the breslov vids let me know) uncle moishy and so forth. and only at certain times.

I do not however allow then to bring friiends over to watch vieos because then it wil be4 come a so called cinema and either all my neighbourswill want to watch or they won't be allowed to play with my kids. it happened but I put a sop to it. my sil once wanted to come with her sister's fam to watch some class party/ perfomance whatever it was, I said " you're welcome for coffe cake and a chat but not the computer" interesting she declined and didn't come. well prob she wanted the computer and was'nt interested in me. also one of ds's friends did that.

ok internet right now I will not tell thenm about but when they get olderi may allow it only with suprevision, if not they may end up in an internet cafe whivh is worse. ( interseting some mentioned that by the rabonim banning internet yeshiva boys are going to the internet cafes and there tey seegirls etc it's far worse, she said better they filter it than boys seeking other places to go.)

game boys out of the question, can't afford them anyways.

cell phone also not now and if yes later only one that has no features on it ie just to call a kosher phone. ( it's interesting tha the un secretay noticed in sderot that every school child had a cell on their desk, hashem yishmor aleinu) in time slike this and places I would agree to it.

btw I would teach my boys to use a computer... it's very useful well at least the basic ie typing etc.

Mrs.Norris

Wed, Jun 13 2007, 6:40 pm

GR wrote:

just as much danger as a computer as far as internet and addiction goes, such as a cellphone.

apart from addiction what "danger" does a mobile phone have? I'm quite curious, I'd love to hear 'real life' stories perhaps of the consequences and dangers (and I do not mean of some hooligans using a phone to take pictures of their victims while beating them up, if so it's not so much the phone I'd be concerned about ...).

I think having a computer is an excellent tool but obviously you do not let your children run wild with them. But there is almost no way these days that you will be able to stop your children using internet, my sisters friend who comes from a very chareidi family does not have internet at home as it is forbidden but instead he just uses it at a friends house so I do not see what that has acheieved, at least at home the parents have some control over what is viewed.

Mrs.Norris

Wed, Jun 13 2007, 6:42 pm

Motek wrote:

the things Hila mentioned were actually quite simple things, I think I learned how to do all that at the age of about 11 (yes, my parents let me use the internet from an extremely young age but can't say it did me any harm).

loveit

Wed, Jun 13 2007, 9:41 pm

We decided that we would allow a computer in the house (I cannot remember a time when I did not have a computer in the house I grew up) but like breslov said, not as a focal point, but it will most definitely be used in a common area for supervisory reasons. Like other posters, I think it is necessary for children to learn how to use computers, internet, software, etc. Not every child will spend theor entire life in yeshiva without the need for a computer. Our children will be hard pressed to find jobs or careers that don't require use of a computer. It is important to have very clear cut rules about the use of the computer, especially the internet and to teach the children that it is a privilege, not a right. Additionally, forbidding the use of a cmputer or other electronic device only makes the child more interested, and what is the point if its possible that they can get access at a friends house without my knowledge? I think it is important to show your children the appropriate uses for a computer. If you tell your children no and tha tht ecomputer is dangerous or bad for them, it may only encourage them to use a cmputer or the internet innanpropriately either at their friend's or even at the public library.

BennysMommy

Thu, Jun 14 2007, 1:39 am

I live in one country, have a bank account in another, transfer funds in an instant from one to another, pay all my bills, receive and send money to ppl. I do that all online. I have a ny phone number that rings in argentina. I work for ppl in the US only bc I have a computer. I cant even begin to tell u how much more difficult my life would be if I didnt have a computer or internet in the house. I depend on it for many many things. my children will also learn to benefit from the good. its going to be impossible in the near future to live a life without a computer or internet. everything is online. everything can be done with the computer.

Ruchel

Thu, Jun 14 2007, 6:21 am

Mrs.Norris wrote:

Motek wrote:

same

Ruchel

Thu, Jun 14 2007, 6:22 am

BennysMommy wrote:

I live in one country, have a bank account in another, transfer funds in an instant from one to another, pay all my bills, receive and send money to ppl. I do that all online. my children will also learn to benefit from the good. its going to be impossible in the near future to live a life without a computer or internet. everything is online. everything can be done with the computer.

I agree with everything. It's so practical to deal with the bank accounts online instead of having to call or worse go there!!