Business Meetings | Imamother

lavenderchimes

Sun, Mar 18 2018, 11:25 pm

You need to keep your boundaries strong. I would avoid being friends -- avoid any personal conversation, or lengthy conversation that is not about work. Avoid text messaging that is not about work. Private conversations and text messaging can both create a feeling of "closeness" which you do not want to encourage.

"Friendly" is fine. "Wanting to be friends" is going to be problematic. Before I was frum, I had a lot of male friends, and most of the time someone developed feelings. A lot of people got hurt. Yes, some people have lots of opposite gender friends with no problems, but is it worth the risk? I say NO.

amother

Powderblue

Sun, Mar 18 2018, 11:34 pm

lavenderchimes wrote:

there are ways to chat without talking about "work", without getting too personal.

OP is not talking about people she sees everyday at her office. These are people she networks with, hopefully for the mutal benefit of all of their businesses.

If these folks will refer her clients - they need to get to know her a bit - what she is all about. That doesn't mean she opens up and talk about her personal life.

Miri7

Sun, Mar 18 2018, 11:53 pm

I’m also in a business where I need to maintain a good network for referrals. I keep a close eye out for when I think things cross the line.

I try to think - would this guy talk or text like this to a male colleague? Is it really friendly-professional?

Couple of times I was thinking it might be nearing a line. I made a few comments about how I have the best husband ever!!!! They then didn’t seem phased by it, meaning they didn’t run in the opposite direction and continued on being professional friends for years. No problems - they were just chatty fellows.

One client did seem off to me and I just took the next opportunity to refer him to another male colleague.

I found that I just have to trust my gut instinct. This is a lot harder if you come from a world that has a lot of gender segregation and you’re not accustomed to interacting in a platonic manner with the opposite relations

lavenderchimes

Sun, Mar 18 2018, 11:59 pm

amother wrote:

100% you can chat without it being about work, if you stay professional. But you have to be careful that it not be too lengthy or get personal -- both of which can happen easily if you aren't mindful about keep strong boundaries. Getting to know someone a bit is fine. Networking is good -- but doesn't necessitate being "friends." Networking is still about business.

amother

Powderblue

Mon, Mar 19 2018, 12:07 am

lavenderchimes wrote:

that's why I asked what she meant by 'friends'. It can be broadly interpreted.

You've soften your view a bit LC. Smile

If OP finds that in addition to both being connected to real estate she and the mortgage broker both are interested in say, gardening - well there is something to talk about. Does that make them friends?

lavenderchimes

Mon, Mar 19 2018, 12:20 am

amother wrote:

that's why I asked what she meant by 'friends'. It can be broadly interpreted.

You've soften your view a bit LC. Smile

I didn't really soften my view at all, though. The boundaries of what is work-related change somewhat with different professions. If more networking is required, then more conversation is required, but the boundaries that need to be maintained are basically the same: don't talk to often, for too long, or about anything too personal.

If you find that you have an interest in common, and you want to chat a little about gardening? Are you friends? As you said, it depends on how you define "friends" Smile

In my experience, men asking to be friends usually means future problems. But I don't know anything about OPs situation, so I can't be the judge.

I know lots of men with whom I am sure I could find things in common. But I would never talk to them in private, no matter how much we liked gardening. I wouldn't text or talk on the phone about non-work things. I would keep the casual/social networking in public, so there could be no misunderstanding about how friendly I am willing to be.

Of course, OP can do as she likes with no judgement from me! But since she asked advice ... this is how I feel about it. I am probably more stringent than a lot of people, which would have seemed ridiculous to me five years ago:). But I have seen SOooooo much damage done by "friendships" that got out of hand. Usually with coworkers and colleagues who starting out talking about work, got into involved conversations, found mutual interests, starting talking more privately ... snowballing, snowballing, snowballing -- WHOOPS someone's having an affair. A few boundaries carefully applied from the beginning can save everyone years of heartache!

amother

Powderblue

Mon, Mar 19 2018, 12:31 am

lavenderchimes wrote:

yes - but where that boundary is. If you set yourself up to say - I will only talk to men about matters that directly pertain to selling houses, and nothing more - networking won't work out very well. Talking gardening is a very low level risk. Growing a business means taking risks...

lavenderchimes

Mon, Mar 19 2018, 12:56 am

amother wrote:

Right. Which is why (I probably wasn't very clear because ADD and late hours do that to me) I suggest keeping social and casual conversations in the public arena. Make some small talk about gardening, but don't do it by text for two hours late at night. That's just an example. There is a line between what is considered normal social conversation (I once had a somewhat lengthy discussion at soul with a man about something mundane, and often have small conversation about whatever just to be friendly,) and getting too close. In an attempt to be more clear, I would set boundaries as follows:

Talking about work = Good
Making small talk in person = Good
Small talk by text or phone = Good
Discussing common interests for short periods PROFESSIONALLY = Good
Mentioning your DH casually in a positive light = Good
Smiley faces and wink faces in text = Risky
Discussing common interests for more than 30 minutes = Risky
Texting back and forth about common interests = Risky
Meeting privately for extended period of time = Risky
Texting or calling late at night to discuss common interests = Bad
Mentioning your DH in a negative way = Bad
Discussing personal issues = Bad
Anything you feel guilty about = Bad
Anything that you wouldn't want your husband to know about = Bad

Of course, there are a lot more lines that will need to be drawn as situations arise. But the point is that you need to have a good idea of what your general boundaries are ahead of time. And if you start noticing flirtation, or c"v you start taking more of an interest in the person than you should, you need to adjust your boundaries with that person FAST. And the most important boundaries exist IN YOUR MIND -- do NOT let yourself start feeling "close" with these men.

lavenderchimes

Mon, Mar 19 2018, 1:16 am

I feel the urge to tell a story: My best friend of ten years became friends with a classmate while we were in art school. They were both painters, but they had a lot more in common than that. They had great conversations about all kinds of esoteric things! They got in the habit of stopping by each others studios -- he was just one hallway over from her -- to talk about all the things they were both so interested in. Soon, they were spending hours sitting in each others studios, late into the night, talking about all their mutual interests. Her husband was an engineer, who just didn't have an interest in or knowledge of all these esoteric and artistic things. His fiancé lived out of town. It became obvious to me that my friend was getting way too close to this guy. But she didn't want to hear it -- she valued his unique perspective! And they were JUST friends, after all. They NEVER discussed personal stuff. But it became more and more clear that they were developing a strong emotional attachment. They were talking for long periods of time nearly every day. She told me that she kept having the urge to touch his arm. She told me she loved him. Then, she started talking about leaving her husband. Oy vey... the truth was that they would not have made a good match. Her husband balances her. B"H, nothing more happened than hours of conversations. After witnessing this train wreck for more than a year, I told her that if she really wanted to stay in her marriage, she HAD to stop talking to this man. She struggled very hard for over a year to wean herself away from him. B"H, time and distance eventually broke the bond they had created, and she is now very happy in her marriage. After more than three years of distress.

This is not the only time I have seen and been party to this kind of disaster -- and it was all COMPLETELY avoidable. For years, I thought these things were inevitable. When I started learning Torah, I realized how EASY it is to save ourselves from the heartache. Just Have Boundaries.

Thanks for putting up with my rambling:)