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-> Children's Health
Mommyg8
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Mon, May 14 2018, 11:11 pm
oakandfig19 wrote: | Wow I'm really shocked by these answers. The vast majority of the time people make claims of being raped or abused, they are true. Reading these responses you would think it's more likely she made it up, when that's just statistically not true. She has everything to lose- not him- as evident by these posts. There is a commandment not to speak/listen to loshon hara but guess what? There's also a commandment to protect yourself. And ignoring credible claims of rape- yes, there was a phone recording that was enough to implicate him- is just creating a sakanah for you, your children, and your community. Being too righteous is a sin too...we are not obligated to ignore threats. |
Just to clarify, as I'm sure you all know... Lashon Horah... is when it's true.
I have no opinion as to whether these specific allegations are true or not, and as it's not relevant to my life I will leave it that way. But, I do want to address a point that I see written over and over again.
Many posters are saying that when women make allegations they are most often true. That could be, not saying otherwise, but think of it this way - generally speaking, when someone is accused of a crime, I would like to think that the prosecution has evidence. Very often - and I am NOT talking about this specific story - it boils down to "he said she said". He says it was consensual, she says it was not. (Again, not the case here, as there is no possibility of consent with a 15 year old girl, but in other situations.) So when frum people are hesitant to prosecute, or bring to the authorities attention, specific allegations, it may not be because there is a culture of abuse, or hiding abuse, but rather, because people are hesitant to besmirch someone's good name for something which may or may not be true, can never be proven, and probably can never be prosecuted. Even if the secular courts will prosecute and punish simply on a woman's say so (and thankfully I have no familiarity with this so I have no idea if this can happen or not), frum people are worried that there is a possibility that a person will be wrongfully accused, and I do think this is where the hesitation is coming from. This is also, unfortunately, somewhat of a preventive measure. IF it would be ok to simply accuse anyone of anything, without proof and without evidence, then this can turn into a way to hurt someone with whom you have an axe to grind.
In any case, false accusations are not something that is new. Remember Yosef Hatzadik and Potiferah???? And wasn't there another story - I'm trying to remember who this happened to but I can't remember -was it the Shla's father? That he was learning in the beis medrash, and the maid accused him of raping her. He was thrown out of town - but I'm hazy as to the rest of the details, the only thing I do remember is that he got rewarded in the end for the wrongful accusation. So it's obvious that women wrongfully accusing men has been happening - and has been a way to bring men down - probably for at least the last few thousand years.
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creditcards
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Mon, May 14 2018, 11:17 pm
oakandfig19 wrote: | Wow I'm really shocked by these answers. The vast majority of the time people make claims of being raped or abused, they are true. Reading these responses you would think it's more likely she made it up, when that's just statistically not true. She has everything to lose- not him- as evident by these posts. There is a commandment not to speak/listen to loshon hara but guess what? There's also a commandment to protect yourself. And ignoring credible claims of rape- yes, there was a phone recording that was enough to implicate him- is just creating a sakanah for you, your children, and your community. Being too righteous is a sin too...we are not obligated to ignore threats. |
We are obligated "not to believe the story as true for a fact", but at the same time be cautious and protect yourself. Go ahead and protect yourself. No one here is keeping you back. As far as me, yes or not believing the story, is not gonna help the 16 year old girl in the least bit. There is no way my believing will protect her. Let the police do there job and their investigations. There is no reason we all need to believe it here on imamother. I believe that is precisely why we have so many posters not wanting to judge here. They are following the Jewish law. It's a frum website after all.
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amother
Honeydew
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Mon, May 14 2018, 11:19 pm
Did any articles mention what this non-Jewish girl was doing in his house?
Supposedly it happened numerous times. Why would she come back if she knew what happened once before?
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Mommyg8
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Mon, May 14 2018, 11:39 pm
creditcards wrote: | We are obligated "not to believe the story as true for a fact", but at the same time be cautious and protect yourself. Go ahead and protect yourself. No one here is keeping you back. As far as me, yes or not believing the story, is not gonna help the 16 year old girl in the least bit. There is no way my believing will protect her. Let the police do there job and their investigations. There is no reason we all need to believe it here on imamother. I believe that is precisely why we have so many posters not wanting to judge here. They are following the Jewish law. It's a frum website after all. |
Thank you for explaining this so clearly.
And to the OP - you tell people not to call Shomrim, but do you tell people not to call 911 as well? Do you know that policemen are four times as likely to be involved in domestic abuse than the general population (as an abuser)? Does that stop you from calling the police as needed, ch'v?
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flowerpower
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Mon, May 14 2018, 11:42 pm
I think it's time to shut this post down. Any mods around?????
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