Cleveland- HAC vs. Derech Hatorah

shirtsandskirts

Mon, May 14 2018, 8:49 pm

we are moving to cleveland from NY. My children currently go to a very warm small school, and I hear that HAC is very big and am wondering if maybe Derech Hatorah is smaller even though it's not our Hashkafah.

Are there any smaller schools in the area- that are middle of the road families (not modern or to the right)? and what are the differences between the two schools above?

This is for two girls ages 6 & 4

amother

Magenta

Mon, May 14 2018, 8:57 pm

For young girls, HAC is fine, though yes, quite large, and not warm, perse. There are big problems for the boys, but HAC girls is a separate animal. By the time your girls are in high school, a new school for high school girls might be well established (they're working on it now).

Before considering Derech HaTorah, do your research as to how Mosdos Ohr HaTorah became Derech HaTorah.

Torah Nursery might be an option for your 4 year old if you want smaller and warmer.

For K through 8th the only frum options for girls at this time are Mizrachi (very left wing), HAC, and Derech HaTorah.

Not sure how much smaller Derech HaTorah is than HAC but a number of families have moved from there to HAC.

shirtsandskirts

Mon, May 14 2018, 9:01 pm

amother wrote:

Nope. But derech hatorah is a very good school. Very warm and friendly atmosphere.

moreso than HAC? Wil we feel out of place if my husband wears colored shirts, we have internet, kids watch kosher videos on occassion, I wear long sheitel??

amother

Magenta

Mon, May 14 2018, 9:06 pm

honestly, I THOUGHT that Derech HaTorah families weren't supposed to have tvs or let their kids watch videos or have internet at home, but 99% of the families I know, their kids watch videos-- one family I know has a tv. I don't personally know anyone with a long shaitel but it probably exists.

But there is more to a school than the hashkafa. Visit the schools-- meet the teachers. Speak to families. Do your research.

amother

Hotpink

Mon, May 14 2018, 9:16 pm

HAC is not big at all compared to the NY/NJ schools. We moved here from the tristate area and everyone was saying how huge my child's class would be. There were 24 students in the class Rolling Eyes

Not very big considering that this child had 30 students in their class before we moved to Cleveland. The grade before was much smaller. It consisted of around 17 students per class, so for Clevelanders it's huge. It's all relative. They do keep the classes smaller. But the school is growing. I heard that there will be four 1st gr girls classes. (But only 2 boys first grades) But keep in mind that the classes will likely be on the smaller side. That would be my guess.

Also, there are definitely kids in Derech Hatorah who watch videos, go to ball games and have Ipads. I know more then one family who sends to Derech Hatorah and allow those things. Although all of those things are officially against the rules.

Which area are you moving to? If you are moving to Beachwood you won't get bussing to Derech Hatorah because so few families in Beachwood send to Derech Hatorah. It's also something to keep in mind regarding your kids social lives.

amother

Hotpink

Mon, May 14 2018, 9:18 pm

DunkinLover wrote:

How big is Hebrew Academy - how many students per class? What about Derech Hatorah?

I would visit both schools and ask about your children's specific grades. Visiting both schools should be a priority as they are run very differently and the buildings are very different from each other.

amother

Hotpink

Mon, May 14 2018, 9:20 pm

DunkinLover wrote:

I heard that HAC is having 75 girls next year going into 1st grade and Also my children now have 17 and 13 girls in their class, so 25 is huge.

They are having four classes. So each class would probably have around 18/19 kids. That is not big at all. I think that derech hatorah classes are big as well. They grades fill up quickly in derech hatorah, so you should find out if there is still room for your children.

amother

Pink

Mon, May 14 2018, 9:37 pm

Derech hatorah only has 2 classes per grade, and some still have only one. Each class has about 17 in each. It’s a lot smaller than HAC, and run differently too. (Less professional and official, much smaller) colored shirts are not unheard of at all.

amother

Apricot

Wed, May 16 2018, 8:06 pm

My kids are in YDT. We're BTs, chilled yeshivish type. There's a range of families - some very yeshivish, some who are less strict but still have an overall yeshivish outlook. Many kids do watch videos (carefully screened ones). Colored shirts aren't the majority, but there definitely are some fathers in them. Long sheitels - again, not the majority, but some. Internet is allowed as long as it's filtered properly (you need to have your Rav sign a form that you went over it with him).

We're very happy where we are. Very warm school. The school works hard at instilling achdus and simcha.

YDT has a lot less money and resources, though, so if you think you might need specialized services it's something to factor in.

My impression of HAC (from friends who send there, not direct experience) is that it has a huge range of "types," which can be challenging but also good, depending on your kid. It's run in a more structured way, which also has pros and cons. (I'm grateful for YDT for being flexible with one of my kids, who needed an out of the box approach and the hanhala was willing to try my suggestions.) Also there can be more peer pressure around gashmius there - but YDT isn't exactly immune to that either. But most families in YDT aren't well to do, so it makes the gashmius thing less of an issue.

If you want your girls to have the opportunity to take higher level English classes in high school, HAC would be the way to go.

amother

Navy

Wed, May 16 2018, 8:37 pm

amother wrote:

I’m a YDT parent and made the decision that for elementary school it’s best for my daughter. Depending on what she’s like when she’s high school age, I’d consider switching to HAC (yavne) but that’s a long way off for me...

That's so interesting! A very uncommon switch- I've never heard of that. (My kids at YDT.)

Yes, at YDT there are a few boys per grade that hock about Lebron James.
Yes, at YDT many parents allow kosher videos, some parents probably allow reg Disney movies.
But- unlike HAC- a huge percentage of parent body are yeshivish, and most are or were in Klei kodesh.

To the poster above who commented about considering that YDT was formerly Mosdos--- I am not sure why that would make a different. It's run completely differently nowadays.

I'd recommend you come to carpool at both schools, interview with the principals, walk the halls (yes- the buildings are very different- especially the boys'!)... walk around your future neighborhood and ask ppl you meet on the street where they send their kids.

amother

Navy

Wed, May 16 2018, 8:40 pm

DunkinLover wrote:

moreso than HAC? Wil we feel out of place if my husband wears colored shirts, we have internet, kids watch kosher videos on occassion, I wear long sheitel??

There are colored shirt fathers, albeit minority.
Many if not most parents have internet- school has each parent have their Rav sign it's filtered.
Kids watch kosher videos on occasion- definitely many kids watch frum videos, if that's what you mean.
Some of the very young mothers wear longer sheitels. But I'm not sure what you mean by long. Most sheitels are slightly below shoulder.

amother

Apricot

Wed, May 16 2018, 8:49 pm

A few girls every year do switch to HAC for high school, my girls' classes had I think 3 or 4 girls who switched. Pretty common if you want college-prep classes for your girls. Sometimes it's for other reasons too - like if you see your kid needs a more diverse class than she could get at YDT.

amother

Apricot

Mon, Jul 18 2022, 2:19 am

Still mostly the same but it’s very hard to get into YDT currently due to space issues. YDT is the more yeshivish school but there’s a range and more of an OOT mentality than people might expect if they’re from in town. It’s ok to let kids watch kosher videos, all internet has to be filtered with your Rav signing off on it, no ball games during the school year but it’s ok during the summer.

My one kid who needed extra tlc is really doing well BH! We’re very happy with the chinuch our kids are getting overall. Boys’ English is a weak point but that’s not only at YDT!

amother

Hotpink

Mon, Jul 18 2022, 11:03 am

I have kids in both schools.
Hashkafically, the biggesr difference is that HAC is a big mix of kids from diff types of families and ydt is mostly one type.
like in hac you will have girls that dont cover their elbows and knees outside of school, in the same class as girls that only wear knee socks. Hebrew teachers in hac are all yeshivish.
in ydt everyone is some form of yeshivish. obviously there are some families that arent but its a tiny minority.
physically the boys buildings in the two schools are very diff, ydt's is old and in bad shape and hacs is beautiful and brand new. ydt has a beautiful girls building.
academically I find the english to be on the same level if not higher at ydt. hebrew is def on a higher level at ydt.
ydt offers minimal and unreliable extra support for english in the girls dept. dont know abt boys. hac def has more resources for kids that need help.
hope this helps!