Gaza | Imamother

cbsp

Thu, May 17 2018, 11:11 am

PinkFridge wrote:

If this has legs, it needs to be researched and then covered. Shades of Muhammad al Dura?

It's a well known MO. No need to go all the way back to Muhammad al Dura.

Check out around the 2 minute mark in the video above from honest reporting - the "shot and wounded" guy gets off the stretcher and walks away... There's also a video of how stage makeup is used to create pretty gruesome (and really authentic looking) injuries prior to engaging in conflict. I believe that video is from a different Gaza clash, but there's no reason to think tactics have changed...

And I know Sixofwands bowed out, but for those who align with her thought process, can you now understand why we might feel sad that a baby is dead - but do not think that should influence our position on the matter?

Does your view change if indeed it is proven that the baby was already dead before being brought to the battle? How about if not dead but known to have a heart condition that would be aggravated by being there? I'm furious at the parents! And if indeed they were coerced to bring the child, then I'm furious at the coercers as well - where does the IDF come into it?

PinkFridge

Thu, May 17 2018, 11:53 am

Jeanette wrote:

To me the point is that when Israel bends over backwards to accommodate world sensitivities the world isn't satisfied anyway so the result is increased Israeli casualties with no discernable benefit.

This does not mean Israel davka goes out of its way to cause civilian suffering. Given all that was going on, 60 deaths of which 50 are Hamas fighters is not a bad toll at all. But it's a waste of energy trying to convince the world of that fact.

At the same time, whatever is going on in gaza is a humanitarian crisis. Whether it's Israel's fault or what can be done about it are an open question. I can support Israel's right to secure its own border while still acknowledging that keeping a population basically prisoner is not sustainable in the long term.

I want to like your post.
But re the bolded: that wasn't the original plan to begin with when we got out of Gaza.

Fox

Thu, May 17 2018, 1:21 pm

Everybody sit down. Are you sitting? Holding onto something stable, maybe?

Because I agree with Jeanette 100 percent regarding Israel's security, the PR battle, and the need to remember the humanitarian factor.

I applaud the groups and individuals who fight back against anti-Israel bias that frequently morphs into anti-Semitism. They range from groups like Israel on Campus, an organization that helps students counter BDS initiatives and educate students about Israel all the way to people like gay [filth] producer Michael Lucas, who is relentless in reminding the LGBT community that Israel is the only country in the Middle East where they would be safe from imprisonment or execution.

But courting popularity with the media should not be the goal of Israel's military or government. Whether the animus comes from deeply buried, latent anti-Semitism; misguided cheering for what seems to be the underdog; a Marxist dog's breakfast of oppression politics, or just ignorance and laziness . . . it has shown itself to be resistant to logic and facts.

As Jeanette said, the fact that Israel's actions are generally appropriate should not blind us to the difficulties of people who must live under the rule of Hamas and the PA. Yes, Eisav soneh Yaakov, but most Palestinian women would probably rather be on their own Imamother, complaining about their MILs and the fact that the schools keep lowering the age at which the girls have don the hijab.

I've met Arabs from many places over the years, primarily Jordan, Iraq, and Egypt -- admittedly, not terribly religious, English-speaking Arabs attending universities in the U.S. After they argue through the various Israeli policies they believe to be wrong, they will almost always admit that the Palestinians have essentially been held hostage by their own leaders, who have used them to loot the United Nations, extort money from other Arab countries, and enrich themselves and their families.

Had the money that has flowed into Gaza in the past decade been used to construct infrastructure and create a tourist business rather than dig terror tunnels and buy weapons, we'd be arguing over whether it was appropriate to go to Gaza for Shavuos-on-the-Beach. Instead, Hamas (and Iran) chose to enslave their people.

someone

Thu, May 17 2018, 1:56 pm

Mayflower wrote:

I know I'm going to get stoned for this, but to me this shmecks of kochi v'otzem yadi. Whether in Israel or not, we are still essentially in golus.

Of course Jewish blood should not be hefker and Israel should defend itself. I do think, however, that this attitude of "we do whatever we want and don't care what the rest of the world thinks" can be very dangerous ch'v.

I wrote the post you are replying to here fast, you are right, if I didn't know myself I would also have felt the way it made you felt. In reality the way I see it is that every single second Israel exists is a massive miracle. Even on a regular "uneventful" day. Add to that all kinds of "eventful" days on which we see even greater miracles. Just over the past week we have seen so many miracles (and there are many more that we are unaware of) on the Syrian/Iranian front and on the Gaza front. Of course "im Hashem lo yishmor ir shav shakad shomer". What I meant to say was that b"H, after two thousand years Hashem has brought us back to Israel, given us our own army, and protects us every day and gives our chayalim koach la'asot chayil. And I don't think there is an attitude of 'we do whatever we want and don't care what the world thinks', there is an attitude of - if we don't protect ourselves (obviously only when Hashem is matzliach our efforts) no-one else is going to do it for us. We no longer have to sit around being killed and pleading that the local poritz/sultan have mercy on us. Hashem has taken us out of that golus and brought us to this atchalta d'geulah reality. Chasdei Hashem

FranticFrummie

Thu, May 17 2018, 3:39 pm

https://unitedwithisrael.org/h.....C2_A0

By: Shiri Moshe, The Alegmeiner

A senior Hamas leader said on Sunday that recent Palestinian riots on the border between Israel and the Gaza Strip were backed by the Islamist group’s fighters and weapons.

In an interview with Al Jazeera, Hamas co-founder Mahmoud al-Zahar called allegations that the terrorist group was employing “peaceful resistance” against Israel “a clear terminological deception.”

“When you have weapons that are being wielded by men who were able to prevent the strongest army in the region from entering the Gaza Strip for 51 days, and were able to capture or kill soldiers of that army — is this really ‘peaceful resistance’?” asked al-Zahhar, whose remarks were translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI).

“When we talk about ‘peaceful resistance,’ we are deceiving the public,” he said. “This is peaceful resistance bolstered by a military force and by security agencies, and enjoying tremendous popular support.”

Hamas, which has ruled Gaza since 2007, has actively encouraged Palestinians to participate in the series of border riots dubbed the “March of Return.” The campaign was launched in March with the aim of pressuring Israel to allow Palestinian refugees of the 1948 Independence War and their five million descendants to enter Israel.

Around 40,000 Palestinians participated in the riots on Monday, when the US opened its embassy in Jerusalem. Sixty people were killed and over 2,500 injured by Israeli forces, the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry announced. Some demonstrators were filmed throwing rocks and firebombs, burning tires, and flying flaming kites into Israeli territory. The Israeli military said others opened fire on its soldiers or attempted to place improvised explosive devices along the border.

According to the Israel Defense Forces, “at least 24 terrorists” were among the fatalities. “Most were active Hamas terror organization operatives, and some were active operatives of Palestinian Islamic Jihad,” the IDF announced.

The Israeli military has also released footage of what it said was a thwarted attempt by eight armed Hamas terrorists to cross into Israeli territory from northern Gaza.

Israeli officials have accused Hamas of using the riots as cover to breach the border fence and carry out attacks in Israel. Yet a number of governments have raised concern about the IDF’s use of force on the Gaza border, with Turkey and South Africa recalling their ambassadors and others requesting an international probe.

UN Chief António Guterres said on Tuesday he was “profoundly alarmed and concerned by the sharp escalation of violence and the number of Palestinians killed and injured in the Gaza protests.”

While the riots were originally planned to end on May 15, Gaza officials have promised that they would be extended. “We will continue with the protests, and it is the Palestinian people who will decide the situation on the ground,” Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas’ top political leader, said Tuesday.

In April, Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar vowed that “our people and our boys will surprise the entire world with what they have in store,” the blog Legal Insurrection reported.

“Let them wait for our big push,” he said at a protest east of Khan Younis. “We will take down the border and we will tear out their hearts from their bodies.”