Mandalas - oh dear? Art from other religions

seeker

Tue, May 29 2018, 2:07 am

Of course I'm going to ask my LOR but not at 2 am when I'm finding things online and imamother is the only thing still awake.

I was planning a mandala project and discovered that it's actually a religious symbol and is actually used in rituals to invite some kind of deity into the home.

I originally heard of mandalas for being both aesthetic and therapeutic - apparently there's something about drawing concentric patterned circles that promotes inner peace/balance and this has been supported in practice.

Now it's making me uncomfortable... especially since I was going to do it as part of an Indian-themed activity because I knew it was an Indian art form originally - did not realize it was specifically an Indian religion thing!

So I'm going to ask my LOR about the advisability of doing a mandala as an India project, but meanwhile wanted to share my own discomfort and ask about others' experiences with art that originated in unholy sources but also would have had aesthetic value if it hadn't. Is it unholy? Can it be divested of its significance and appropriated for aesthetic use or is it inextricably tied to its original association?

heidi

Tue, May 29 2018, 2:11 am

I don't even know what a mandala is.
But plenty of sukkahs in Yerushalyim are lit by strings of beautiful . . . x-mas lights. I couldn't do it bcz. I associate them with a Christian holiday. But if someone has no clue what they really are they are why shouldn't they use them in a holy manner? Similarly if it's a beautiful art project that we learned about from a different culture why should it be relevant what they used it for?
Just my opinion.

amother

Smokey

Tue, May 29 2018, 2:17 am

I've heard of them and I've heard of frum people doing it.
That doesn't mean it's okay, (just because you hear someone else is).

I think there's different opinions whether it was created for avodah zara, or created and after it was created people began to use it for avodah zara.

amother

Taupe

Tue, May 29 2018, 2:47 am

My guess is not allowed. Of course you will ask. But as a side point did you know that the Eastern religions were started by the six sons of Avraham that he had through Keturah? Have a look at שישי in חיי שרה which is בראשית כה.

salt

Tue, May 29 2018, 3:10 am

amother wrote:

Wikipedia: "its a spiritual and religious symbol in Hinduism and Buddhism."
Agree I'd stay away from it.

What is it a symbol of though?
If it's a symbol of the world going round and round for example, or the cycle of the year, or of the eco-system, I would say it's OK.
If it's a symbol of god of the Sun, I would say it may not be OK.
My kids color in madalas. I've seen my grade 1 girl in a Jerusalem Beit Yaakov school even comes home with them sometimes, when they have free time and the teacher hands them out a coloring page to keep them busy.
But that doesn't mean anything - the teacher may not know of it's symbolism.

etky

Tue, May 29 2018, 3:24 am

I'm not at all 'arts and craftsy' so I've never colored one myself but they have become extremely popular here in Israel. Kids are encouraged to do them as a means of boosting concentration and focus, adults do them to destress and seniors do them to keep busy.
Personally, I would put them in the same class as other things that we have adopted from the east such as yoga, meditation, Ayurveda medicine, macrobiotic diet, even some forms of martial arts etc.- all activities and practices whose origin may in some way be associated with avoda zara religions but which over time have become neutral enough for us to appreciate and benefit from their aesthetic and therapeutic value.
Of course AYLOR though, because I can imagine that this is a highly subjective issue and that there are many hashkafot on the matter.

salt

Tue, May 29 2018, 3:54 am

amother wrote:

Can anyone explain what a mandala is? I thought it was an art style (like coloring books). Is it a specific shape or just the style?

It's a colourful, circular symmetrical pattern.
I often print them out for my kids to colour in - they make really nice decorations, and keep kids busy for hours:-
https://printmandala.com/

amother

Blush

Tue, May 29 2018, 4:34 am

salt wrote:

It's a colourful, circular symmetrical pattern.
I often print them out for my kids to colour in - they make really nice decorations, and keep kids busy for hours:-
https://printmandala.com/

I was asking because I have a bunch of adult coloring books that I enjoy. I think it's mandala style. (very small patterns) but all type of shapes, lots of flowers, animals, every design you can think of.
So I'm wondering if it's also mandala, or is mandala a specific shape. (when I pressed on the link I see they are all round and all +- the same style )

amother

Orange

Tue, May 29 2018, 6:40 am

Did you know that yoga is also avodah zarah? Mandala is a T shaped circle. The ones I bought for my israeli friend, don't have a specific shape. You need to do the prayers etc for mandala to be the real deal. You should ask a rav.

amother

Emerald

Tue, May 29 2018, 7:49 am

Yes taupe and that is why even tho these things have their origin in avodah zarah they seem to have some initial benefit which does attract people though we should stay far from anything even seemingly initially beneficial which has its roots in avodah zarah.
Ritual symbols of avodah zarah? would NOT let my children or myself color them.
These things affect in ways we cannot discern and not worth it.
Reminds me of people saying Xmas trees are just trees whats the big deal.
Its called assimilation.

seeker

Tue, May 29 2018, 8:56 am

salt wrote:

It's a symbol of the unity of the universe or something benign like that - not like a cross. But in addition to the symbolism it seems to be central to some ritual.

seeker

Tue, May 29 2018, 9:00 am

The comparison to yoga is interesting, thank you. I think that nowadays yoga has been universally adopted as a physical exercise with physically rational benefits, and almost all yoga classes have no religious element anymore. I think it's an excellent comparison.

To those asking - a mandala is specifically a circular repeating pattern. It can be any circular repeating pattern, not just the flowery motifs that come up on top in Google search.

jjudithc

Tue, May 29 2018, 10:04 am

A very sweet friend (non-Jewish) got me a gorgeous painted in-laid glass plate which had a mandala in the shape of a Magen David. She thought of me and couldn't resist buying it! It's so beautiful.
I did keep it, but I have grave concerns about avoda zorah so didn't put it up.