Is this bad parenting?

amother

Brown

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 8:40 pm

I am sure I'm not the only one who's had to trick a 2-3 year old. You know...there's something "wrong" with his (fill in the blank), so you take it to the kitchen and get him a "new" one. Yes, I am being deceptive, but what else can you do with a stubborn 3 year old?

The real problem here is that my older children see what I'm doing. I know my 6 year old is very aware, and she sometimes even suggests it. "Mommy," she whispers, "just pretend to give him a new one!"

Am I teaching bad middos over here? My kids know we're only supposed to say the emes...but here I am, clearly being deceitful, and my kids know it. How else am I supposed to deal with a tantruming kid, if I don't have another lollipop available for him?

Opinions?

Woman of Valor

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 9:23 pm

Behavioral psychology 101 = if an action is rewarded it will increase. You are actually encouraging your child to complain if you always give him a new X when he complains. How about saying "Sorry, sweetie, this is what I have for you right now." If he starts kvetching, repeat it once, Afterward, distract.

seeker

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 10:04 pm

WindowMagic wrote:

Sometimes it's just not worth it... especially if your kid is hungry or tired, and you know that they can and would scream for two hours, it's not always a great idea to test their frustration tolerance that way. Especially since once you trigger the tantrum then you REALLY can't back down. Easier to just OK it in the first place than to say no and pay the price.

I don't have an answer to OPs dilemma, it's a really great question, but I don't think she's necessarily doing anything wrong by trying to get the baby what he wants.

Maybe you can say you're going to the kitchen to "fix" it instead of saying you're getting a new one?

Woman of Valor

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 10:14 pm

seeker wrote:

Of course that is the easier way in the short term. I meant more long term gain. I was pointing out that often the screaming is precisely because it worked for the child in the past. You need to make it not worthwhile for him to scream, or you can expect to see a lot of it.

amother

Jade

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 10:22 pm

WindowMagic wrote:

So you prompt the child to ask for it appropriately- "please can I have a different one?" And then exchange it in the kitchen. I would expect a 6 year old to be able to handle the disappointment of the wrong color or whatever, not necessarily a 2-3 year old.

amother

Amethyst

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 10:23 pm

I agree wth window magic. Why would I enforce behavior I don’t want to deal with? So you think you outsmarted him - but really he just got permission to continue driving you crazy. You’re the one that really lost, not him.

seeker

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 10:28 pm

WindowMagic wrote:

And often it is because the BABY (which 2-3 year olds are) does not yet have the adaptive skills necessary to deal with things that are, to them, catastrophically out of order. And often they aren't ready for those skills either. I don't think anything is lost by saying OK in the first place. If you hesitate and then give in when you see the child is upset, that's bad news. But if the child says "not this cookie! a different one!" then you can just say yes and no harm done. Or you can say "say please" and then say yes and no harm done.

amother

Jade

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 10:32 pm

amother wrote:

Most little kids asking for a different one don't have the goal of driving you crazy. So no, you didn't lose (although the idea of winning vs losing against your child is really bizarre). The child is most likely hungry, tired, otherwise dysregulated, or sincerely upset by the option that was offered.

trixx

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 10:33 pm

amother wrote:

I would say if the older kids know you're doing it to pacify and not trick the baby it's OK. Tell daughter after, Moshe is too young to understand ___ but once he gets older like you he will be held responsible to accept whatever he gets.

Woman of Valor

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 10:51 pm

Of course you can say yes to your child!! I am talking about the times when you are choosing to say no -- you need to be consistent and not cave in when they kvetch.

Who's talking about winning vs. losing? We are talking about helping children learn how to behave in society.

I say no to my son who is under two sometimes. Mostly for safety but also when I decide to. I have seen children who manipulate their parents and it's really scary!

I hug him if he is sad, I empathize and verbalize his feelings, but no is no!

amother

Brown

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 11:03 pm

OP here. Just to clarify, I definitely say no to my son. He's a handful and will tantrum when he doesn't get his way, but there are certainly times that I will tell him, "I'm sorry, zeeskeit, but we're not playing outside/having more candy/etc. right now." If he continues to scream I try to distract him or put him in his room until he calms down.

Sometimes, though, it is much easier for everyone's sanity to "trick" him. For example, his lollipop got wet and he wasn't happy about it - he wanted a new one. I didn't think there was anything wrong with that lollipop that would warrant a new one, so I left the room, stuck it back in the wrapper, and brought him a "new" one. This was not a no that turned into a yes, it was just me deciding it was not a battle I wanted to fight.

But when my 5 year old says to me, "Mommy, I know what you did!", it makes me concerned that I'm teaching a bad lesson.

amother

Amethyst

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 11:11 pm

amother wrote:

2-3 yr olds can be surprisingly manipulative. They learn pretty early on how to get what they want out of you. If it’s a different color, that’s one thing. It seemed from what op wrote that the child can’t discern a difference - just wants a different one for no obvious reason. It’s like when the child begs for more whatever, so you pretend to give more. And then you end up doing that every day, with everything. Instead of just establishing the fact that only when you finish, you can ask for more.

trixx

Sun, Jun 03 2018, 11:58 pm

amother wrote:

Because you're old enough to understand there's nothing wrong with this lolly, sweetie. He doesn't, and I don't want to waste a new one (baal tashchis).

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jun 04 2018, 5:55 am

2 year olds can be very smart, and very funny sometimes. DD always had to have two cookies, no matter what. One for each hand.

I'd break a cookie in half, and give her both halves. She was happy. We laugh about it a lot now! LOL

Just tell your older DD what the other posters said, DS is too young to understand, and leave it at that.

pesek zman

Mon, Jun 04 2018, 6:24 am

This is very interesting. I have a 3 year old too but I don't know what you're referring to. Mine certainly can tantrum when she wants something I don't want to give her but I think my role is to teach her (as she grows) to change her response: that's when she gets 'rewarded' Meaning I never met a whiny crying child watch 'another peppa pig'

myname1

Mon, Jun 04 2018, 6:24 am

I remember learning something interesting in a class on emes. The example she gave was a wife asks her husband how she looks. The rebbetzin teaching said the wife is not really asking how the dress looks, but asking if her husband thinks she's beautiful (or something to that effect). So he can say something not-quite-true (if he doesn't like the dress) to make that point come across, because that is the real question being asked. The common example of Aharon HaKohen saying untrue things to preserve peace is the same concept. So I think you can try to point out to your daughter that her toddler brother doesn't really care if his lollipop is new- he just wants Mommy to give him one that doesn't disturb him, so this works just as well.

But I'm not sure you need to tell her anything if she doesn't ask- maybe just have it in the back of your mind that truth could be subjective in case it does come up. I also like the idea of not saying straight out that this is a new one if you don't have to- just give it to him in the wrapper or say you fixed it.

imasinger

Mon, Jun 04 2018, 8:01 am

myname1 wrote:

I like me this. Great answer to a really good question.

amother

Apricot

Mon, Jun 04 2018, 8:43 am

If possible I would think of a different solution. I would not want my kids to think I am not telling the truth and might do the same thing to them. It's a matter of trust and relationship building. Also I would not want them to think its okay for them to do it which would be a natural outgrowth of this example as they learn from what we model rather than the explanations.

Laiya

Mon, Jun 04 2018, 11:53 am

amother wrote:

In general, I agree with you that honesty with our kids is important to building trust. But that's when you're dealing with children who have the ability to reason and understand.

With a 3 year old, I think it's important to try to preserve their sense of dignity. Let their feelings be acknowledged, and pretend to give a new lolly, but there's no benefit to actually throwing out the lolly.