Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette
Being Menachem avel via text message
Previous  1  2



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

happyone




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 25 2018, 1:00 am
Nasty. Remember when humans actually communicated????
If you couldnt take two mins to pick up the phone while I was sitting Shiva, pls dont send a text. Menachem avel isn't meant to be pleasant for the person that feels they need to pay a Shiva visit or call. If you feel a text is adequate , you probably dont have much of a relationship and your gesture isn't necessary. Just my feeling . We still laugh about the stupidity ppl said via text . I may be wrong, but this is how our family perceived texts.
Back to top

Mamushka




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 25 2018, 1:32 am
I sat Shive right next to were I live. My close friends came. I actually appreciated text messages. They showed me that people cared. I didn't need to have an awkward phone call and I was able to read these messages later on again, when I needed comfort.
I guess it really depends on the person's personality, how close you are to the person and what kind of relationship you have with the person sitting Shive.
Back to top

watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 25 2018, 6:21 am
Come to think of it, I received many facebook messages when my husband posted that my mother died. Many posts and private messages from people who lived too far to visit and/or not someone who was close enough with me to call. I also got private messages via fb. I REALLY appreciated that. I’m thinking of one person in particular, a friend from high school who I was very close with and then she and I went in different directions in 11/12 grade - a call would have been weird. She lived half the country over. A fb message was perfect.
A mother of ax ex friend of mine died recently. I messaged her sister on fb. The sister messaged back a few days later how much these messages mean to her and that people came out of the woodwork to tell her how much they loved her mom. Phone calls would have been inappropriate in many of these cases. Fb messages were 100% appropriate and actually provided comfort to the mourner. Isnt that the point?
Back to top

amother
Papaya


 

Post Mon, Jun 25 2018, 8:52 am
thunderstorm wrote:
I think a phone call is better. But if not, an email or fax is better than a text too, IMO.


My phone is not set up for email. Even if it was, I would have found it too distracting and wouldn't have checked it during shiva.
And this presumes that people knew my email, or fax number of the shiva house.
Back to top

little neshamala




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 25 2018, 8:53 am
When I sat shiva I absolutely could not stand the phone calls. So irritating. Of course the callers meant so well but I wasnt always in the mood of a talk. And when youre on the phone thats all you can do. It was awkward at best, draining and very unappreciated.

But I LOVED the texts. I read them at my own leisure, and didnt respond until I was ready and able, some not for a good week later. They comforted me so much.

I guess it really is to each his own
Back to top

amother
Papaya


 

Post Mon, Jun 25 2018, 8:55 am
amother wrote:
I sat shiva 3 times. I didn't appreciate the texts.


Hugs. If you'd like to elaborate we'll listen. It could be helpful for OP if it's not too late.
Back to top

amother
Papaya


 

Post Mon, Jun 25 2018, 8:58 am
happyone wrote:
Nasty. Remember when humans actually communicated????
If you couldnt take two mins to pick up the phone while I was sitting Shiva, pls dont send a text. Menachem avel isn't meant to be pleasant for the person that feels they need to pay a Shiva visit or call. If you feel a text is adequate , you probably dont have much of a relationship and your gesture isn't necessary. Just my feeling . We still laugh about the stupidity ppl said via text . I may be wrong, but this is how our family perceived texts.


And some of us see it the other way. Not that it's what's convenient for the texter, but that it might be more convenient for the avel.
The people who texted me are older, and have very different relationships to their phones. Now that I think of it, they also all called me when I came home.
Back to top

heidi




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 25 2018, 9:07 am
little neshamala wrote:
When I sat shiva I absolutely could not stand the phone calls. So irritating. Of course the callers meant so well but I wasnt always in the mood of a talk. And when youre on the phone thats all you can do. It was awkward at best, draining and very unappreciated.

But I LOVED the texts. I read them at my own leisure, and didnt respond until I was ready and able, some not for a good week later. They comforted me so much.

I guess it really is to each his own

I'm glad you feel that way.
I often text-- especially when people are sitting shiva in another country.
As someone who has B"H never sat shiva, but has made lots of shiva visits, I see the frustration of many shiva sitters with phone calls. They don't want to leave a room full of people to answer. They don't want to talk on the phone in front of a bunch of people. To me, texting seems exactly the right balance of showing you care but not invading on the time and energy of those sitting shiva.
Back to top

watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 25 2018, 9:11 am
amother wrote:
Not appropriate. Just muster the courage and call. Say the pasuk and ya.

THIS is the type of thing that offended me the most, actually. It was clear that the person called out of obligation and not because they actually wanted to. Hearing the pasuk “and ya” was hurtful and rude. A call, visit, or text should be from the heart. Not to check something off of a mitzvah to-do list.

The rav of my shul came by erev shabbos when I had just gotten up from shiva. I was right next to an erev shabbos errand that he had to run, so he stoppd by THEN to “say the passuk and ya”. I had been sitting for a week and dh had called him a few times with shailos. He KNEW I was sitting. He made me sit back down to say the passuk. It was unreal.

Dont come or call or anything unless you want to.
Back to top

amother
Amethyst


 

Post Mon, Jun 25 2018, 11:27 am
Yes and no. I appreciated not having to pick up a phone and react on the spot.
Back to top

mha3484




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 25 2018, 11:33 am
As an avel I hated when people called. They conversations were stilted and awkward. I much preferred text/email/facebook.
Back to top

amother
Saddlebrown


 

Post Mon, Jun 25 2018, 11:35 am
I would write a letter and mail it(the old fashion way)rather than text; a letter can be a very nice to save especially if you have memories of the niftier bec they can use that as memoir but if I wouldn’t be able to pay a house call,I would either call or write a letter; I think texting is not as personal.
Back to top

watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 25 2018, 11:37 am
I think the bottom line is that shiva is deeply emotional and personal and we all experince it differently. There is no one rule here. You have to know your person.
Back to top

little neshamala




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 25 2018, 12:42 pm
Ive been giving this more thought. Whats very interesting is that its a halacha that when you go to be menachem avel you may not initiate conversation until the avel does. You must remain silent. Which means that even if you sit down, the avel looks you in the face and keeps talking to the person she was talking to, and continues like that for 25 min, you may not initiate conversation. The reason for this is, its about being MENACHEM the avel.COMFORT. and the only way you can do that is by following their lead. Even though you came armed and ready to talk all about their father and what a tzadik he was, if the avel has been crying anad talking for 6.5 hours and is exhausted and would just like some light distraction and mentions how delicious the potato kugel shes eating is and who made it and whats the secret to its fluffiness....then that is what you answer. You answer about the kugel, and you do not deliberately attempt to change the topic back to what a tzadik her father was. The avel leads, and the comforters follow.

I loved this halacha when I was sitting. I really saw the wisdom. When I was ready to talk to you, I began. Until then, you stayed silent and waited for me to be ready. If at all.

Only....when the phone rang...it disrupted the whole thing. The person was calling to be menachem avel, and there was no way for me to quietly dip my head and acknowledge their presence while not initiating conversation with them. It just began. And there was no way for me to quietly maneuver it in a different direction because .....shes calling specifically to tell me! Shes so so sorry and my father was such a tzadik etc etc! And...the freedom I had in real life not to engage in coversataion I didnt have the strength for was taken away by the phone calls.
Back to top
Page 2 of 2 Previous  1  2 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Anyone know about Mesivta Ateres Menachem in Montreal? 0 Sun, Mar 17 2024, 5:38 pm View last post
[ Poll ] Family /Friends who dont have text messaging 52 Tue, Mar 12 2024, 3:04 pm View last post
Pop up text on Fig
by amother
2 Mon, Mar 11 2024, 9:54 pm View last post
Nicknames for Menachem
by amother
18 Mon, Mar 11 2024, 5:40 pm View last post
by kenz
Would you answer this text?
by amother
14 Wed, Feb 14 2024, 3:42 pm View last post