imposing minhagim/ girls and candle-lighting

Mimisinger

Wed, Aug 08 2007, 9:21 pm

I was brought up traditional (Yekkish background) and I lit 2 candles every fri. nt. w/ my mother who also lit 2.

Lighting candles is such a beautiful way to start on a BT journey. What's so bad about lighting candles? It brings shabbos in! What's the big deal? No one should be pressured, but come on. It's lighting candles!

As for the mikva lady - I think there are many mikva ladies who overstep their boundaries. The job of the mikva lady is JUST to make sure all of your hair went under. That is it! A mikva lady has to be two things - 1) of bat mitzvah age and 2) Able to see. That's it.

So, for all of those who checked your nails, feet, etc., etc., etc., that's very nice? of them, but that wasn't their job. And personally, I don't think a mikva lady telling someone to do it their way is any worse than telling someone who already checked herself (it's her own job btw) that she has to change something. Both are doing the wrong thing. Both are imposing what they want onto a person. I think just b/c the mikva lady was Lubav it became a huge controversial issue.

B"H there are mikvas all over the world bc of Chabad. If you don't like the pool where it is, DON'T DUNK!

Ruchel

Wed, Aug 08 2007, 9:46 pm

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Sounds like a family custom, ruchel.

Ah ok. I was wondering if it was that or community, as my grandfather was raised in the community of R’ Halberstamm and didn’t see his girl cousins lighting candles (yes I asked him).

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Here's another example in which the Lubavitcher Rebbe said not to change people's customs:

A question arose regarding teaching Yemenite children, for the Chabad teachers used the Ashkenazic-Russian pronunciation while the Yemenites wanted their children to learn in their own traditional pronunciation.

It is interesting! In France I definitely notice many Chabad or Litvish Sefardim who adopted Yiddish pronunciation, or even switched to talking Yiddish instead of Judeo Arabic. When my father first talked with some of the bochurim of a yeshiva not far from our town, he just couldn’t believe they talked such a good Yiddish! lol

At the same time, many kept their pronounciation. But I noticed that since Ashkenazim and Sefardim go to the same schools both dropped their special accents and switched to an “universal” Hebrew (except some who take pride on keeping the Ashkenazic or Sefardic accent, for some it’s a huge deal ).

amother

Thu, Aug 09 2007, 3:26 pm

ok, I've read all the previous posts and agree and disagree but I'm not going to go there for now

I have another question?

I have plenty of cousins and friends who's children went to different kinds of yeshivos then their parents or siblings, and each boy keeps the minhagim from thier yeshiva's shita's etc.

so what about all those families??? I can think of hundreds that don't keep the same minhagim as their parents

they are all frum and a lot live in the same neighbourhood

I'll give you an example,
my aunt shaves her head and wears a hat over her shaitel

she insists that all of her daughter in laws do the same thing eventhough not all of their mothers follow that minhag

and the list goes on and on...just look around your neighbourhood and see if everyone's siblings and parents all keep the same minhagim

you might be surprised

so before you pick on chabad encouraging pple to do mitzvahs and minhagim that may be diffrent to their upbringing (which they don't even know about) let chabad live!!!

I think they do a lot of good work out there and for those that find problems with that, I think its just sinas chinam,

LIVE AND LET LIVE

catonmylap

Sun, Sep 23 2007, 3:26 am

I'm going to pretend I didn't even see that last post.

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If you know something about MO Israeli society you will know that it also does not put a great deal of value on each group keeping its own minhagim. For example it encourages davenning with a Modern Hebrew accent, even for Ashkenazim.

I don't think that is true at all.

Keeping minhag hamokom is not the same as not keeping your families minhag. In Yerushalayim, we all light candles at the Yerushalayim "time," not however many minutes we kept wherever.

I think MO Israelis keep their own minhagim as much as any group.

Dh and I both daven in ashenazis, but we aren't going to teach our son to daven differently than he will learn in school. He will be learning in minhag hamakom, that is not the same as not keeping a family minhag.

I think it's a common thing across the board that men take on the minhagim of their Rabbanin in Yeshiva rather than of their family, especially if their family is not frum.

Dh actually reverted back to his yeekie roots when we got married (his father had kept the minhagim of his Rabbanim in yeshiva).

sarale

Sun, Sep 23 2007, 4:38 am

Would Shalhevet rather the young girls not light candles, and make a positive step in the way of serving Hashem?
By the way, Rivkah Imeinu lit candles at three, see Rashi, so the source is in the TORAH!!! Look at the Rashi where it talks about Ohohela Sara Imo- where Yitzchok was glad the three miracles returned to his mother's tent when Rivkah entered... One of the miracles was that the shabnbos candles buirnt a whole week. WE all know she was three, so there it is in black and white, girls should light at three.

THe Rebbe was revitalizing an old custom, etc... which may have been lost to some...

shalhevet

Sun, Sep 23 2007, 5:38 am

sarale wrote:

Would Shalhevet rather the young girls not light candles, and make a positive step in the way of serving Hashem?

I said nothing against young girls lighting candles. It is simply not our minhag, and the thread is about one group imposing their minhagim on other groups. My daughters, B"H, make plenty of positive steps in serving Hashem, without lighting candles. Be'ezras Hashem, they will light them when they get married.
There is a very strong inyan (idea) of v'al titosh Toras imecha - that each group keep their own minhagim. I also see no value in MY daughters eating kreplach on erev YK, not eating fish on Pesach or throwing bags of water at each other on Shavuos.

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By the way, Rivkah Imeinu lit candles at three, see Rashi, so the source is in the TORAH!!! Look at the Rashi where it talks about Ohohela Sara Imo- where Yitzchok was glad the three miracles returned to his mother's tent when Rivkah entered... One of the miracles was that the shabnbos candles buirnt a whole week. WE all know she was three, so there it is in black and white, girls should light at three.

Here we go again. Stick a pasuk with a midrash with someone's idea and walla... a proof from the Torah.
Confused

Uh, you just missed one vital point - Rivka was married at that point, and halacha is that a married woman lights Shabbos candles. So you still owe me a Torah proof that a single girl of 3 lights candles. (BTW, there are other midrashim that she was 13 - just that you should know some Tanaaim aren't included in the WE all know she was three).

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THe Rebbe was revitalizing an old custom, etc... which may have been lost to some...

As I said, we have our minhagim and everyone should go by their own. Not everyone goes by your Rebbe.

And to the sweet, full of ahavas Yisroel, anonymous poster above, maybe you'd like to reveal your identity so that we can all come to you to learn mussar.
The fact that I disagree with the views of Jews here, or in real life, does not detract one iota from my ahavas Yisroel. I don't always agree with my husband or children either and it certainly doesn't mean I don't love them. There are plenty of posters here, who unlike you, have shown that we can have heated discussions while still respecting each other and liking one another.

catonmylap

Sun, Sep 23 2007, 6:15 am

sarale wrote:

They are both beautiful minhagim. One does not make the other less beautiful. It's beautiful to see a mother lighting candles together with her daughters. It's also beautiful to start lighting candles when you get married. You go from your mother's home to your own home where now you light candles. It's something beautiful to start lighting in your own home.

I don't think chabad should be convincing little girls to light candles if it's not their family minhag. For college girls to start lighting, is not such a bad idea because they are in their own home already even if they aren't married. And it's one thing to tell someone who doesn't know their minhag than to tell someone who does.

I started lighting every week in college. I had wanted to wait until I was married, but felt that since I was on my own, it was time to start ( I had been lighting every other week at home due to our family circumstances) I waited to say the "yehi ratzon" till I got married. I also lit 2 candles from the time I started lighting regularly--I think the chabad minhag is 1, no?