Be honest - receiving kallah gifts and other gifts

watergirl

Sun, Jul 15 2018, 10:44 am

camp wrote:

The girls you’re talking about are chassidish 17 year olds. What do you think they feel? Nothing, only bad if if they don’t get as much as their friend. They don’t know the chosson, so it’s all about the externals.
This is not the mehalach in the yeshivish our MO world. Over there, it’s like some suggested, it’s determined by the wealth of the chosson (or his parents). It’s understood and accepted that the jewelry will be according to the chansons budget. Done

I am not talking about 17 year old chassidish girls, actually. This is something that happens all over the spectrum. Yes, I know its less common in the mo world, I first got married in that world. You think it doesnt happen there too? You are wrong. Pressure happens everywhere.

And still, most of the posters here didnt answer my question. So many threads here from women who cant afford the required gifts, yet no one here saying that they received such a gift?

amother

Brown

Sun, Jul 15 2018, 10:53 am

amother wrote:

I'm disappointed in this thread. So many responses. I don't think there's a single response from someone acknowledging that they go into debt and spend way more than they should. Everybody here just says they on the other side and don't participate in this nareshkeit. Well very many families, maybe even most, spend more than they can afford. It would have been nice to here from that perspective.

I understand you're disappointed but I wouldn't want to participate in this craziness because I don't want my sons to marry superficial girls. I don't like those type of girls and bh I don't think my boys would appreciate that kind of behavior either.
People should be wanting to get married because they appreciate and respect the other person. Of course some people are superficial and they prefer wealth over character. Fine that's their choice. But then they should choose someone rich in the first place. And there wouldn't be an issue then!

amother

Silver

Sun, Jul 15 2018, 11:05 am

watergirl wrote:

But back to my op, how would you feel receiving whatever you received if you knew that the person who paid for your gifts couldn't afford it?

I think most young kallahs don't really get the concept of not affording. We grew up poor, and we knew we were poor, but until I got married and had to pay my own bills I didn't really understand what that meant. Also, I knew there wasn't money for extras, but a diamond ring isn't considered an extra in my world, it's expected, so as a young kallah I expected to get a diamond ring and all the gifts that are expected, it never occurred to me that my in-laws really can't afford to buy them.

amother

Denim

Sun, Jul 15 2018, 12:01 pm

watergirl wrote:

My in-laws dh were able to afford the gifts they (dh) bought for me. They were beautiful gifts but not over the top. I'm grateful for the gifts especially because we wouldn't and usually can't spend like that ourselves. Dh is not a gifty person and I'm grateful for my ring, bracelet and watch all these years later.

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, Jul 15 2018, 12:17 pm

asmileaday wrote:

And isn't that sad?

This is such utter nonsense. That's what's sad. The wrong judgement. The looking down. It's embarrassing that Jewish people look down at other circles in this way. I'm as chassdish as they come. I had one sit-in date and then married several months later. No I had no contact with my chassan in between.

But no the gifts are not to make one feel special. It's part of the Jewish custom passed down all the way from our avos. Most people I know would not want their future in-laws spending what they don't have. Social pressure is usually self-made.

I spent the months as a kalla preparing myself for married life on every level. My husband had never met anyone before me. The massive amount of research put in before meeting meant that we both knew we were likely compatible before we met. The fact that he only knew me made it so much more special. We built a deep, special relationship as soon as we married. It's now three decades later. And our marriage is as close as ever.

Stop the stereotypes. Let me say it clearly. My husband is ultra chassdish.
He is also educated.
He is highly intelligent.
He is a super-mentsh.
He's as polite as they come.
He does not take benefits.
He does not try to live up to the Kleins.
He also has massive yiras Shomayim.
He also loves to learn.
And yes he has total shmiras ainayim.

He may not be for you. Well, that's okay. And he's taken anyway. Smile

But you don't have to push others down in order to feel better!

watergirl

Sun, Jul 15 2018, 12:33 pm

amother wrote:

This is a really thought provoking reply, and it makes sense to me.

amother

Linen

Sun, Jul 15 2018, 1:55 pm

I grew up quite poor - my father much to my embarrassment went round collecting for my siblongs weddings embarrassed

I got engaged to family who people think they are comfortable (bc they live that lifestyle) but they are really struggling.

When I got engaged in told dh not to get the huge arrangement of flowers that is standard to give at the engagement party. He asked if I didn't like flowers and I explained that it's a huge amount of money with no meaning to me. I much prefer he comes home one day with a bunch of red roses bc he thought of doing that.

Having said that I kind of expected an engagement ring. But if he would have given me a Cz I would have understood 100%.

And this was when I thought my in laws were not strugglIng financially

amother

Ivory

Sun, Jul 15 2018, 2:28 pm

I didn't want or get a diamond ring. I didn't want or get massive flower arrangements. I didn't want or get a catered lechaim in a hall. I didn't want or get a bracelet.

I got a pretty ($500) necklace, a siddur, tehillim, and a wedding band. I got silver candlesticks and simple (had to be under $100) earrings. I got a lechaim in a friend's home, and for the wedding a one-man band, Gemach silk flower centerpieces, a gemach gown.

It's still a lot of money, although my in-laws are B"H not struggling.

And I imagine I will get my DILs whatever they expect, even though I think most of it is over the top. Because there are battles worth fighting and I don't think this one is mine.

The luxuries were not important to me, but other things that others would consider unnecessary I do find important. So hopefully society will have toned things down by the time my kids are getting married, because I am not likely to buck the trend on my children's cheshbon.

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, Jul 15 2018, 4:30 pm

amother wrote:

You got a nose ring like Rivka Imenu? Wow, you really do defy stereotypes.

Seriously, the over the top gift giving is a function of postwar affluence. It's lovely to put the presents in religious context, but it's wrong - for many reasons - to make conspicuous consumption a religious obligation.

Let's not take the quote out of context please. This is what I said:
[But no the gifts are not to make one feel special. It's part of the Jewish custom passed down all the way from our avos. Most people I know would not want their future in-laws spending what they don't have. Social pressure is usually self-made.]

Two things can be inferred from here:
1) gifts are not to make a kalla feel likes she's a kalla. It's an age old custom. Though yes fashions do change.
2) it's totally unnecessary, nay totally wrong to spend money you don't have.
I didn't expect my mil to spend money she didn't have. In fact I received less than the 'norm' and didn't think to judge at all.
This feeling of 'entitlement' is not as common as some would believe.

And I still think social pressure is not a thing. It's self-made.

amother

Chartreuse

Sun, Jul 15 2018, 4:42 pm

amother wrote:

But you don't have to push others down in order to feel better!

[b]

Stereotypes are often based on reality. That fact that your dh doesn't have many of the traits and characteristics that are common among chassidim doesn't make the stereotype unfair. It simply means that your dh is the exception or in the minority. I can't speak about everything on the list you provided but several of the stereotypes that you deem unreasonable are actually pretty accurate. The idea that chassidim are less educated vs the rest of the population is a fact. It doesn't mean all chassidim are uneducated or that it makes an uneducated person inferior in any way. It just means that from a statistical standpoint chassidim are less educated than others. This starts in low elementary school and the 19 year old hired to teach English in the afternoon. Secondly, why is it a stereotype that chassidim are on benefits in greater numbers than others? The fact that you married an educated man who is able to earn a living and not take benefits does not refute that chassidim are on benefits in greater number vs. the rest of the population. I think you seem very fortunate and should count your blessings. But your husbands qualities don't upshlug the reality among chassidim with regard to weaker education and benefits. No point in pretending.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, Jul 15 2018, 5:33 pm

watergirl wrote:

This is a spin off the thread from the OP who got a cheap watch.

Be honest please. When given a gift by someone who you know couldn't afford it - how does it make you feel? Lets say they went into debt, charged it on their credit card with the massive bill, had to go door to door collecting, still struggle to pay tuition... etc.

Do you feel touched that they sacrificed for you? Do you feel bad?

I’m so baffled by this phenomenon of every kallah getting the same gifts dispite financial ability.

I would feel horrible. Yes, touched at the sacrifice but the horrible part outweighs the touched part. DH and I are not from the “standard kallah gifts” circles, never even heard of this till I came here, so I had no expectations and was appreciative of whatever people gave me. There was no question of parents or in laws going into hock to drape me in pearls and diamond jewelry. Nor do I have seventeen sisters and sisters in law, all of whom got married within plus or minus three years of me, so there was no question of comparing.

I don’t get the whole comparing thing at all. We know that some people have more friends and relatives with more money than others so why would we expect everyone to get the same gifts? We also don’t do the gift exhibit thing, which I thought was revolting even at the tender age of 11 when I first went to a simcha where they did this. I haven’t changed my mind.

Come to think of it, I don’t think my friends and I talked much about the gifts we got. Of course you admire each other’s rings and tell each kallah that hers is the most beautiful ring you’ve ever seen, but you don’t sit there evaluating the four C’s and appraising the probable cost.

amother

Brown

Sun, Jul 15 2018, 5:46 pm

amother wrote:

As far as I've heard and seen , chassidish men usually work while yeshivish stay in kollel and therefore need more benefits.

watergirl

Sun, Jul 15 2018, 5:52 pm

amother wrote:

In general?
Sometimes taking is giving.
It makes the other person feel good.
(If they are going to buy it anyways, no matter what you say, take it with a. Smile and say thank you)
How do I feel? That I made their day. It's not about me

I agree. IF it made the giver feel good. And if it didnt? If they gave it because they had to? Because if not the engagement would be broken off? If they had to go without chicken for 2 months and struggle with tuition? I hope the kallah never finds out.

amother

Blush

Sun, Jul 15 2018, 8:39 pm

amother wrote:

You're right! (at least sometimes)
I've had the pleasure of buying gifts.
I love seeing son-in-law or daughter-in-law with something I bought.
We spent what we could afford and didn't beg, borrow or steal to buy the nice but not at all extravagant gifts we bought.
IY"H by all of you!