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Forum
-> Parenting our children
-> School age children
amother
Lemon
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Mon, Jul 09 2018, 10:59 pm
Before I go the therapy route Id like to hear methods that parents were successful with or a good book I can read on how to help my child.
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amother
Blush
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Mon, Jul 09 2018, 11:30 pm
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amother
Orchid
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Wed, Jul 11 2018, 6:30 pm
We have a few books we like: "The girl who never made a mistake" and "Beautiful Oops". They helped my dd, but may not be enough to solve the problem. If you want to go the terapy route, make sure you get someone with experience with perfectionism.
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amother
Lemon
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Wed, Jul 11 2018, 9:43 pm
Tnx for book suggestions ill look into that. Are there books for parent on how to help the child? I see all suggested books are for the kid
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amother
Aqua
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Thu, Jul 12 2018, 2:11 am
How often does she hear you say? Oh that was a surprise, it didn't go the way I thought. NOw whaat? and come up with an answer?
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amother
Orchid
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Thu, Jul 12 2018, 2:27 am
One other thing suggested to me by a psychologist (not one who knew my dd, just a family friend I mentioned the problem to) was to have my dd make intentional mistakes.
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Ruchel
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Thu, Jul 12 2018, 4:10 am
Can you tell her that only Hashem is perfect and that better is the enemy of good?
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cinnamon
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Thu, Jul 12 2018, 5:07 am
How does her perfectionizm manifest itself?
My nine year old is a little bit of a perfectionist. He'd spend hours cleaning his desk and end up throwing everything on the floor in a fit of rage because he couldn't get all his stuff to fit in neatly enough.
Same with putting away his clothes, he would yell and scream if his shirts weren't foldded just right and just throw everything on the floor.
We practiced making things "good enough" and just stopping there.
I set a timer for twanty minutes and he had to be done with his desk or the clothes otherwise I'd do it in ten minutes and thats it.
I repeatedly told him "Good enough. Is perfect"
He also had a hard time with outings. If something didn't go well the whole day was ruined and he would beg to go back home cause "it's just not worth it"
We speak A LOT about concentrating on the good.
We sometimes do little excercizes like when we go out and he complains about something I tell him to come up with three things that are great about the outing and then ask him if it's good enough?
He usually says it is and then I say "Then it's perfect"
He still likes things very precise and neat but he now spends a normal amount of time on things and only rarely throws fits when things don't go his way.
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amother
Magenta
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Thu, Jul 12 2018, 11:04 am
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amother
Lemon
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Thu, Jul 12 2018, 11:51 am
cinnamon wrote: | How does her perfectionizm manifest itself?
My nine year old is a little bit of a perfectionist. He'd spend hours cleaning his desk and end up throwing everything on the floor in a fit of rage because he couldn't get all his stuff to fit in neatly enough.
Same with putting away his clothes, he would yell and scream if his shirts weren't foldded just right and just throw everything on the floor.
We practiced making things "good enough" and just stopping there.
I set a timer for twanty minutes and he had to be done with his desk or the clothes otherwise I'd do it in ten minutes and thats it.
I repeatedly told him "Good enough. Is perfect"
He also had a hard time with outings. If something didn't go well the whole day was ruined and he would beg to go back home cause "it's just not worth it"
We speak A LOT about concentrating on the good.
We sometimes do little excercizes like when we go out and he complains about something I tell him to come up with three things that are great about the outing and then ask him if it's good enough?
He usually says it is and then I say "Then it's perfect"
He still likes things very precise and neat but he now spends a normal amount of time on things and only rarely throws fits when things don't go his way. |
He likes his things neat and in their place but definitely does not freak out if its not. Ill give a few exampes:
*He had a school sheet that he had to return completed with information of bedtime. His sister mistakenly wrote something small on it. He started crying hysterically he ended up not returning the sheet. Crossing out that # wasnt good enough hed rather miss out on his school treat!
*His teacher asked the boys to bring a certain seifer to school. He went to school crying that morning because teacher didnt say if it should be inside a bag or they should hold it...
*Principal tried to work with us seeing positive in things. He made him write down on one sheet the good things and other sheet the bad things that happen throughout the day. He will not do it since "maybe" the principal will not like what he wrote or he wont write neat enough...
*When he goes late to school his dad needs to take him to teacher or principal and only when they acknowledge hes there and they dont ask reason for late hes fine going into class. A note or going with a later bus is never ever an option because maybe the teacher will think this or principal will say that..
*When he plays games with us hes very tense and tries with everything he has to win. Although when he ends up not winning he does not freak out he seems disappointed in himself
My son is similar like yours with outings. Most of the time he ends up being in horrible mood because this or that didnt go exactly according to his plans!
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seeker
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Mon, Jul 16 2018, 12:28 am
This is not what I would call perfectionism. They have the anxiety in common, though.
This sounds like a kid who fixates on details and misses the big picture. One strategy I would try with a kid like this is to discuss (with many examples) what the goal is. For example, when playing a game, your goal can be to win OR your goal can be to have fun with friends. Many kids similar to the one you're describing have a very, very hard time wrapping their mind around this (after all, it seems like the object of any game is quite clear) - but it can be achieved with practice. You can move this toward teaching him to trust his own judgment on things like bringing the sefer to school - the goal is to have it in school; what do YOU think will get that done best? The principal's positivity exercise - does he understand the purpose of it, or is it just one more thing some adult has told him to do? Define the goal. Get the teacher and principal on board also. Tell silly stories that make it abundantly obvious how foolish the main character was to lose sight of the big picture because they got stuck on the details.
And definitely that goes right in hand with the "good enough" described by Cinnamon.
Add that to regular anxiety strategies like talking through the possible outcomes (you're worried about what the principal will say if you come in late without father? OK, what are some things the principal might say? What will happen if you don't like what he says? Or if he says something uncomfortable? Identifying the discomfort makes it more approachable.)
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amother
Dodgerblue
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Mon, Jul 16 2018, 12:48 am
cinnamon wrote: | How does her perfectionizm manifest itself?
My nine year old is a little bit of a perfectionist. He'd spend hours cleaning his desk and end up throwing everything on the floor in a fit of rage because he couldn't get all his stuff to fit in neatly enough.
Same with putting away his clothes, he would yell and scream if his shirts weren't foldded just right and just throw everything on the floor.
We practiced making things "good enough" and just stopping there.
I set a timer for twanty minutes and he had to be done with his desk or the clothes otherwise I'd do it in ten minutes and thats it.
I repeatedly told him "Good enough. Is perfect"
He also had a hard time with outings. If something didn't go well the whole day was ruined and he would beg to go back home cause "it's just not worth it"
We speak A LOT about concentrating on the good.
We sometimes do little excercizes like when we go out and he complains about something I tell him to come up with three things that are great about the outing and then ask him if it's good enough?
He usually says it is and then I say "Then it's perfect"
He still likes things very precise and neat but he now spends a normal amount of time on things and only rarely throws fits when things don't go his way. |
I wish my mother would have done this with me!! I often tell myself “sometimes good enough is perfect.” No one helped me with my perfectionism as a child at all and now, as an adult, I see how much it affects my life, parenting, and marriage.
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amother
Brunette
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Mon, Jul 16 2018, 2:04 am
It sounds like OCPD. It is different than OCD (obsessive thoughts about something to relieve a bad feeling. I must wash my hands for 1 minute or the germs will make me sick. Counting, doing things in a specific way etc).
OCPD is a personality trait- perfectionists, high anxiety if things aren't done right, worries and fears about doing something wrong... This is pervasive and not just about the one or two ways the issue comes up (OCD is usually fixated on a subject).
CBT helps. Therapy from someone licensed in the field might work but also using some skills- seeing what is making him anxious and giving him stepping stones to resolve it. Don't helicopter him. Give problem solving skills. It's not just about not seeing the positive but more about having black and white thinking. Things are always bad and if not 100% perfect it is all bad.
He is afraid to make mistakes- model for him what you do, how you problem solve an issue. Just talk out loud, "I need to do laundry but I also want to go grocery shopping. Instead of sitting here waiting for the machine off, I guess I can set it, leave and switch when I come back". Or how you pick a choice, figure out an issue etc. even ask him his advice to empower him- start easy, give him hints " well, what if I did looked into X? (He says no). Oh you're right, that won't work because" . Also show him how you resolve making the wrong decision. At the dinner table ask about how everyone resolved an issue, made a mistake, made a hard choice...
He sounds highly anxious- if home solutions don't help quickly please get him help and get yourself a few sessions to learn how to help him the other 23 hours a day/7 days a week. Letting anxiety go without treatment just helps it grow and fester and the harder it will be to resolve it later.
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BA
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Mon, Jul 16 2018, 2:12 am
Check out the book, Too Perfect.
Model yourself being ok when things are not perfect.
Good luck
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amother
Coffee
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Thu, Sep 13 2018, 6:23 pm
amother wrote: | It sounds like OCPD. It is different than OCD (obsessive thoughts about something to relieve a bad feeling. I must wash my hands for 1 minute or the germs will make me sick. Counting, doing things in a specific way etc).
OCPD is a personality trait- perfectionists, high anxiety if things aren't done right, worries and fears about doing something wrong... This is pervasive and not just about the one or two ways the issue comes up (OCD is usually fixated on a subject).
CBT helps. Therapy from someone licensed in the field might work but also using some skills- seeing what is making him anxious and giving him stepping stones to resolve it. Don't helicopter him. Give problem solving skills. It's not just about not seeing the positive but more about having black and white thinking. Things are always bad and if not 100% perfect it is all bad.
He is afraid to make mistakes- model for him what you do, how you problem solve an issue. Just talk out loud, "I need to do laundry but I also want to go grocery shopping. Instead of sitting here waiting for the machine off, I guess I can set it, leave and switch when I come back". Or how you pick a choice, figure out an issue etc. even ask him his advice to empower him- start easy, give him hints " well, what if I did looked into X? (He says no). Oh you're right, that won't work because" . Also show him how you resolve making the wrong decision. At the dinner table ask about how everyone resolved an issue, made a mistake, made a hard choice...
He sounds highly anxious- if home solutions don't help quickly please get him help and get yourself a few sessions to learn how to help him the other 23 hours a day/7 days a week. Letting anxiety go without treatment just helps it grow and fester and the harder it will be to resolve it later. |
Wow, this was amazingly spot on.
Can you give advice about how to deal with a husband with OCPD?
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FranticFrummie
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Thu, Sep 13 2018, 7:06 pm
DD had all of those behaviors and more when she was that age. One thing that I often said to her was "It's only a failure if you don't learn anything from it." If a mistake was made, I'd ask "And what did we learn from this?" and then she'd tell me what she'd do different next time, or we'd brainstorm, figure it out. This put her back in control, but not in an anxiety way. Sometimes I'd say "Wow, who knew you could learn so much from one little mistake?"
I also modeled my own mistakes, owning responsibility, trouble shooting, and discussing what I should do instead. I'd do this out loud when she's in the room.
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