Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> In the News
Was today a turning point?
  Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

Mayflower




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 12:41 am
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
I don't believe Obama was or is an anti-Semite. He appointed Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court and nominated Merrick Garland, both Jewish, and not only Jewish, but traditional. (Elena Kagan had her Bat Mitzvah at Lincoln Square Synagogue, a Modern Orthodox Synagogue.)

Obama did visit Israel. He visited the Kotel. He visited Yad Vashem and wrote a much more meaningful message than Trump.

Trump wrote: "It is a great honor to be here with all of my friends – so amazing + will never forget."
All about him, nothing substantive about the meaning of Yad Vashem. He could have been at the baseball hall of fame.

Obama wrote: "I am grateful to Yad Vashem and all of those responsible for this remarkable institution. At a time of great peril and promise, war and strife, we are blessed to have such a powerful reminder of man’s potential for great evil, but also our own capacity to rise up from tragedy and remake our world. Let our children come here, and know their history, so that they can add their voices to proclaim ‘never again.’ And may we remember those who perished, not only as victims, but also as individuals who hoped and loved and dreamed like us, and who have become symbols of the human spirit."

I don't believe Obama was anti Israel. He funded the Iron Dome, which protected Israelis during the war with Gaza. Trump moved the Embassy. I'll take the Iron Dome, which saved Israeli lives, over a symbolic moving of the Embassy, which doesn't change anything, any day.

I didn't agree with everything Obama did. I think he was wrong to instruct Kerry to abstain from that UN resolution. However, I don't think it means he was anti Israel. I do think he believed that this would encourage a two-state solution. I am not opposed to a two-state solution, if it is properly done, but even if I opposed a two-state solution (I used to oppose it, but I've changed my mind because I don't think any alternative is tenable) I don't think that people who support a two-state solution are anti Semitic.


I just thought I'd bump this post. Couldn't have said it better.

Overal, I think it's actually quite humorous that the whole world is dissecting every word Trump says, analyzing it as if there are countless layers of deeper meaning (whether for the good or for the bad). To me it seems quite obvious he just blurts out whatever he wants without giving much thought. If he hadn't demonstrated it enough already, the Europe trip showed once again that he hasn't got a clue of geopolitics and foreign affairs. He doesn't even know which countries belong to the EU or to Great Britain, and he had obviously never heard of "hard brexit" before.
Again, hilarious, if only his stupidity wouldn't potentially lead to such grave consequences.
Back to top

Sadie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 1:24 am
Fox wrote:
"Pointing out a comment by David Duke"?

Um, no. How about telling Imamothers they're "in good company" with David Duke? There is no way to give that a benign interpretation.

Confirmation bias is precisely why I urge you to do a count rather than believe me. Though if you consider telling people that they're in good company with David Duke to be a case of "pointing out" his remarks, then I suppose you'll find very little to object to.


Uh, if the shoe fits.. I’m sure you’re worldly enough to have encountered Frum Jews who are also virulently racist. And I don’t mean in your cutesy “the liberals are the REAL racists” way, although it’s fun to see how you spin that in various threads. Apparently not only are liberals in favor of sx trafficking because we don’t support family separation, now criticizing trumps comments about Putin means we don’t care about Syrian children! Yeah that old fad.

Some of these racist Frum Jews are my relatives (by marriage) and yes, I love them, but they are quite bigoted, and they like trump. They see him as hating the same people they hate. Interestingly, one of them asked me to fill out a US tourist visa application for her and her husband, with the plan of overstaying it and working and living in New York (they’re Israeli) I wonder what the reaction of the “law and order” amothers here would be if a Frum woman’s children were ripped from her arms over such a crime? I imagine it would be different than in the other thread, although we all know it would never happen, and we all know why.

So yeah, if you (general you) and David duke both love trump, and hate all the same people EXCEPT he also hates Jews and you don’t, you’re in good company.

To answer the question of this thread, it’s clear that for trumps base, there is no such thing as a turning point. It’s fascinating to read fox’s well-written and well-thought out polemics trying to convince us (and herself?) that trump is somehow playing a game of 3D geopolitical chess with putin. That he actually has some kind of interest in the relationships between Israel/Syria/Russia/Iran/Saudi Arabia or any knowledge of their conflicts. The fact of the matter is, trump does not know or care about geopolitics, and he does not have a grand plan or scheme that the rest of us are too dumb to understand the brilliance of. Contrary to fox’s claim, he never wrote about his negotiating strategy in his business books because someone else wrote those books. In any case, many of his business ventures were massive failures, so even if he had written those books I still wouldn’t want him to apply his genius strategies to the running of the business called America.

Trump is simply an incurious, ignorant, non-reading boor, but one who can be tough on foreign leaders (mostly our allies) when he wants to. Why doesn’t he want to with Putin? It’s clear that there is something that Putin has on him, either business or zxual (and it’s gotta be something good, because cheating on his post-partum wife with a [filth] star wasn’t enough to embarrass him or tamper the adoration of his base.)

A person who is able to be blackmailed by a foreign enemy surely isn’t fit for the presidency. I wish everyone could agree on that, but I know, mostly from reading imamother, that that’s an unrealistic hope.
Back to top

JoyInTheMorning




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 1:48 am
Sadie, best post ever. Thank you.
Back to top

sushilover




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 5:07 am
Sadie wrote:


To answer the question of this thread, it’s clear that for trumps base, there is no such thing as a turning point. It’s fascinating to read fox’s well-written and well-thought out polemics trying to convince us (and herself?) that trump is somehow playing a game of 3D geopolitical chess with putin. That he actually has some kind of interest in the relationships between Israel/Syria/Russia/Iran/Saudi Arabia or any knowledge of their conflicts. The fact of the matter is, trump does not know or care about geopolitics, and he does not have a grand plan or scheme that the rest of us are too dumb to understand the brilliance of. Contrary to fox’s claim, he never wrote about his negotiating strategy in his business books because someone else wrote those books. In any case, many of his business ventures were massive failures, so even if he had written those books I still wouldn’t want him to apply his genius strategies to the running of the business called America.



You know, there's a lot to unpack in your post. But before I do, I have one question. Why is Fox's point of view 'polemics trying to convince us and herself' , while your point of view is fact? Don't you think you are being as close minded as any Trump worshiper?
Back to top

PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 5:43 am
There's something I felt compelled to say, but now I'm wondering if I should because that angle seems to have died down....I'll say it anyway.

It's about inconsistency, mine to be exact. I feel that whoever's in the Oval Office deserves some level of respect. Yet here I am, making cracks. And if I were a cartoonist, you can be sure I would be the first to do a Donald and His Horrible No Good Very Bad Day (I think I missed an adjective but ykwim) cover.

I fully believed that he should have been fought every inch of the way till the actual election. And now I struggle with my own principle of showing respect for the president.

Has there ever been anyone like this? Well, Michael Medved calls Carter "the worthless one." And I appreciate the laundry list of problematic Obama actions. I might even go so far as to say that if it talks like one and walks like one maybe it is one so perhaps I should cut Reb Shea (or R' Eisen; sorry, as a yeshivish woman I'm selective about using men's first names and I'm sure you can appreciate that, SE) slack in calling Obama an anti-Semite.

But I did, and will continue, to react viscerally to the use of y"sh.

And something else: Yes, we need to show hakaras hatov. It can and probably should extend to writing the White House occasionally to thank for actions and gestures we appreciate. And we can look at someone and say, hey, s/he seems to be a philo-Semite/Israel. But we cannot gush. Or if we do gush, we cannot let ourselves fall for it. We've all seen too much. Sure, we can say that so and so is friendly to Israel and we're grateful but keep perspective.
Back to top

Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 6:26 am
Sadie wrote:
Uh, if the shoe fits.. I’m sure you’re worldly enough to have encountered Frum Jews who are also virulently racist. And I don’t mean in your cutesy “the liberals are the REAL racists” way, although it’s fun to see how you spin that in various threads. Apparently not only are liberals in favor of sx trafficking because we don’t support family separation, now criticizing trumps comments about Putin means we don’t care about Syrian children! Yeah that old fad.

Some of these racist Frum Jews are my relatives (by marriage) and yes, I love them, but they are quite bigoted, and they like trump. They see him as hating the same people they hate. Interestingly, one of them asked me to fill out a US tourist visa application for her and her husband, with the plan of overstaying it and working and living in New York (they’re Israeli) I wonder what the reaction of the “law and order” amothers here would be if a Frum woman’s children were ripped from her arms over such a crime? I imagine it would be different than in the other thread, although we all know it would never happen, and we all know why.

So yeah, if you (general you) and David duke both love trump, and hate all the same people EXCEPT he also hates Jews and you don’t, you’re in good company.

Or, "I have hypocritical, racist relatives who like Trump. Therefore all Trump supporters must be racists and deserve being compared to the KKK." That kind of thinking is pretty much the definition of prejudice, stereotype, and bigotry.

"Cutesy"? Apparently liberals are not only capable of racism; they're capable of sexism. Using "cutesy" to argue with a woman's viewpoint would result in a visit to HR in most companies and probably a pink slip at Google.

Unless, of course, it's being applied to a conservative woman's point of view. In that case, carry on!

Sadie wrote:
To answer the question of this thread, it’s clear that for trumps base, there is no such thing as a turning point. It’s fascinating to read fox’s well-written and well-thought out polemics trying to convince us (and herself?) that trump is somehow playing a game of 3D geopolitical chess with putin. That he actually has some kind of interest in the relationships between Israel/Syria/Russia/Iran/Saudi Arabia or any knowledge of their conflicts. The fact of the matter is, trump does not know or care about geopolitics, and he does not have a grand plan or scheme that the rest of us are too dumb to understand the brilliance of. Contrary to fox’s claim, he never wrote about his negotiating strategy in his business books because someone else wrote those books. In any case, many of his business ventures were massive failures, so even if he had written those books I still wouldn’t want him to apply his genius strategies to the running of the business called America.

Trump is simply an incurious, ignorant, non-reading boor, but one who can be tough on foreign leaders (mostly our allies) when he wants to. Why doesn’t he want to with Putin? It’s clear that there is something that Putin has on him, either business or zxual (and it’s gotta be something good, because cheating on his post-partum wife with a [filth] star wasn’t enough to embarrass him or tamper the adoration of his base.)

A person who is able to be blackmailed by a foreign enemy surely isn’t fit for the presidency. I wish everyone could agree on that, but I know, mostly from reading imamother, that that’s an unrealistic hope.

This is an example of the logical fallacy of "stating as fact that which is to be proven" along with wildly inaccurate paraphrasing of my posts and omitting key details in order to make a point. It also strikes me that you haven't actually refuted anything I've said -- you've just attempted to paint me as lacking in ethos.

Trump may indeed be an incurious, ignorant, non-reading boor, but there is no evidence that he's being blackmailed or that he neither knows nor cares about geopolitics. Simply stating it as a fact doesn't make it true.
Back to top

Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 6:55 am
PinkFridge wrote:
But we cannot gush. Or if we do gush, we cannot let ourselves fall for it. We've all seen too much. Sure, we can say that so and so is friendly to Israel and we're grateful but keep perspective.

Perfectly said!

The current environment reminds me somewhat of the backstory of the HUAC hearings conducted by Sen. Joe McCarthy. The popular understanding today is that slightly left-leaning figures in Hollywood were blacklisted and called upon to denounce friends and family who might be associated with the Communist Party.

The background is a little more complex. During the 30s, in particular, the Communist Party literally controlled what is now the Screenwriter's Guild, and they had their own blacklist. It was impossible to work in a number of production fields unless you were a member of the Communist Party and in good standing with its leadership.

So by the post-war era, when Sen. McCarthy took up the cause of hunting Communists, there were a lot of resentful, bitter people in Hollywood who thought, "Turnabout is fair play."

We are now in a similar position. The excesses of the post-modern activist left over the last two decades have left a lot of people in payback mode. I have consistently claimed that Trump is a symptom, not a cause.

Love Trump or hate him, we are still in golus, and he is not going to bring us out. If his goals happen to align with ours right now, great. But that is a temporary alliance, and it will only last as long as the relationship is beneficial. It's a mistake to regard the enemy of your enemy as a true friend.
Back to top

Sadie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 7:37 am
Fox, my story about my relative and the visa wasn’t about her hypocrisy, it was about the hypocrisy of the trump supporters on this site. I was comparing their hypothetical reaction to a Frum Jewish woman in the country illegally being separated from her kids to their actual reaction when it happens to Mexicans and Central Americans. The argument will have to stay in the realm of the hypothetical though, because we all know ICE would not separate the many Canadians, Europeans, and Israelis in the country illegally from their kids. That’s because it was a blatantly racist policy.

Cutesy absolutely describes your rhetorical trick, and it would regardless of your gender. Actually, I find your suggestion that one need argue differently with a woman than a man to be VERY sexist. As well as the suggestion that cuteness has anything to do with women or femininity. You’re the real sexist!

Lastly, I can’t refute what you said because you only told us what you think trump’s long term strategy might be. It’s only a look into the workings of your own powerful brain and has nothing to do with anything that trump himself has said or done. Why do I think that trump has no interest or understanding of geopolitics? Because he’s never given any indication that he does (unless it affects his business dealings, but trump even cares about *climate change* when it affects his business)

You’re a very smart woman and based on your posts (which I still don’t believe are totally sincere, but do demonstrate your intelligence) you clearly have a better grasp of geopolitics than trump does- I’m not sure why you continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. Is trump’s now saying that he meant to say “wouldn’t” when he said “would” part of his strategy that we can’t understand, even though it contradicts the following paragraph of his original speech? Is he still fourteen steps ahead of the rest of us?
Back to top

SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 7:47 am
Fox wrote:
Perfectly said!

The current environment reminds me somewhat of the backstory of the HUAC hearings conducted by Sen. Joe McCarthy. The popular understanding today is that slightly left-leaning figures in Hollywood were blacklisted and called upon to denounce friends and family who might be associated with the Communist Party.

The background is a little more complex. During the 30s, in particular, the Communist Party literally controlled what is now the Screenwriter's Guild, and they had their own blacklist. It was impossible to work in a number of production fields unless you were a member of the Communist Party and in good standing with its leadership.

So by the post-war era, when Sen. McCarthy took up the cause of hunting Communists, there were a lot of resentful, bitter people in Hollywood who thought, "Turnabout is fair play."

We are now in a similar position. The excesses of the post-modern activist left over the last two decades have left a lot of people in payback mode. I have consistently claimed that Trump is a symptom, not a cause.

Love Trump or hate him, we are still in golus, and he is not going to bring us out. If his goals happen to align with ours right now, great. But that is a temporary alliance, and it will only last as long as the relationship is beneficial. It's a mistake to regard the enemy of your enemy as a true friend.


Are you seriously trying to justify McCarthy?
Back to top

Sadie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 7:54 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Are you seriously trying to justify McCarthy?


It’s unjustifiable of course, but the comparison is apt. History will certainly judge this time period the way we (well, most of us) now judge McCarthyism.
Back to top

Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 9:23 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Are you seriously trying to justify McCarthy?

No, Six. I was suggesting that people are messy and complex and that human nature leads us to behave in certain ways that are somewhat predictable.

I should have known not to give an example from history.
Back to top

Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 10:33 am
Sadie wrote:
Fox, my story about my relative and the visa wasn’t about her hypocrisy, it was about the hypocrisy of the trump supporters on this site. I was comparing their hypothetical reaction to a Frum Jewish woman in the country illegally being separated from her kids to their actual reaction when it happens to Mexicans and Central Americans. The argument will have to stay in the realm of the hypothetical though, because we all know ICE would not separate the many Canadians, Europeans, and Israelis in the country illegally from their kids. That’s because it was a blatantly racist policy.

That's interesting. I don't remember any Imamothers, Trump supporters or not, discussing how they would feel about an Israeli woman being detained by ICE and separated from her children.

Did I miss it or are you just guessing what they would say?

If the former, please post the link. If the latter, then you have made up a story to justify characterizing a large, diverse group of women as racists.

Sadie wrote:
Cutesy absolutely describes your rhetorical trick, and it would regardless of your gender. Actually, I find your suggestion that one need argue differently with a woman than a man to be VERY sexist. As well as the suggestion that cuteness has anything to do with women or femininity. You’re the real sexist!

For someone who is pretty good with sarcasm, you seem not to recognize it. Whether one should express disagreement differently with a woman than a man is not the point. My point is that in any contemporary environment, calling a woman's contribution "cutesy" would be deemed sexist. It would be seen as using a word associated with children and animals to denigrate the other person. Now, that may be unfair, as you suggest, but it is nevertheless true.

Sadie wrote:
Lastly, I can’t refute what you said because you only told us what you think trump’s long term strategy might be. It’s only a look into the workings of your own powerful brain and has nothing to do with anything that trump himself has said or done. Why do I think that trump has no interest or understanding of geopolitics? Because he’s never given any indication that he does (unless it affects his business dealings, but trump even cares about *climate change* when it affects his business)

So now you're claiming that I can't really know what's going on with Trump. Again, I agree completely. But the assertion has been made repeatedly that there is absolutely no possible explanation for Trump's behavior other than being stupid or being blackmailed.

So I give an example of what I think, based on my observations and reading, his goals or plans might be.

Now, really, there's no possible response other than to say, "Huh, that's an interesting idea" or to say, "That's interesting, Fox, but that doesn't explain XYZ."

But for quite a few posters, the response is, "No! I won't consider any possible explanation that isn't Trump being an idiot."
Back to top

Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 11:40 am
Anyone can convince themselves of whatever they want how Trump is really the greatest president in history and has a yoooge bigly plan and is totally getting the better of Putin in secret regardless of what he says in public.

But Putin is under no such delusions. He is not suffering from TDS. He is extremely craft and well prepared and has been plotting this for YEARS. He knows exactly what he's doing.

He and Trump met for two hours and nobody knows what was said. But suddenly Trump is talking about Montenegro being "very dangerous" people and NATO shouldn't defend them. Suddenly Putin is pushing for an American citizen and former ambassador to Russia to be extradited. And of course Trump goes back to insisting that Putin is NOT trying to interfere with our election.

Trump's Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats said the "warning lights are blinking red again" like they were before 9/11 and that "the digital infrastructure that serves this country is literally under attack". What is Trump doing about that other than to say he "disagrees" with Coats? Disagrees based on what?
Back to top

naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 11:55 am
" I wonder what the reaction of the “law and order” amothers here would be if a Frum woman’s children were ripped from her arms over such a crime? I imagine it would be different than in the other thread, although we all know it would never happen, and we all know why. "


Sadie, my blood is boiling so much , I can't type.. About 8-10 years a number of families including myself had serious tzorus from Dyfs. The responses from this very forum, as well as "frum" women in real life were way more cold and insensitive than the Dyfs caseworkers themselves.. So, I don't have to wonder... I KNOW.....
Back to top

Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 12:05 pm
Quote:
WH press sec Sanders acknowledged that Putin talked to Trump about his interest in prosecuting financier Bill Browder and former US ambassador Michael McFaul. she declined to rule out US cooperation in that effort, saying Trump would consult his national security team
Back to top

Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 12:15 pm
There is rarely one turning point but a change of tide
Back to top

Sadie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 12:23 pm
Fox, how do you think people on this forum would react if ICE were separating Jewish families in the country illegally instead of Hispanic families? Do you really think I’m wrong that people would be outraged? I find that very hard to believe. Do you not find it problematic that there were no reports of white children being separated from their families as a result of this policy, even though there are many white illegal immigrants in the country?

Naturalmom5, I’m very sorry that that happened to you, but ICE and DYFS are not the same and the situations are not comparable. I am sure that there were children crossing the border who needed to be separated from their guardians for their own safety, and sometimes in those cases they overreach and make mistakes. That’s more comparable to DYFS overreach but that’s not what was happening there. This was a blanket policy without even the hint of suggestion that it was done in order to protect the kids themselves.
Back to top

sushilover




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 3:06 pm
Sadie wrote:
Why doesn’t he want to with Putin? It’s clear that there is something that Putin has on him, either business or zxual (and it’s gotta be something good, because cheating on his post-partum wife with a [filth] star wasn’t enough to embarrass him or tamper the adoration of his base.)

A person who is able to be blackmailed by a foreign enemy surely isn’t fit for the presidency. I wish everyone could agree on that, but I know, mostly from reading imamother, that that’s an unrealistic hope.


I know it's "clear" to you that there is no explanation other than Putin having some intel on Trump.
I don't buy it because if I were in the pocket of a foreign government, I'd publicly state my condemnation of that country while quietly enacting policies to help them. Trump has done the opposite. (OF COURSE I hate what he saying. It boils my blood. But I can't deny that what he is doing is exactly the opposite of what Putin would want him to do. )

But whether you agree with my assesment or not, Putin interfered in the election in order to create chaos. If he can't get intel to control Trump, the best Putin can hope for is the media jumping to the conclusion that he has intel anyway, thus creating the chaos Putin so badly wanted.
So who is actually helping Putin right now? You are convinced that it is Trump. I haven't seen evidence to prove that. All I see is the media creating an atmosphere of chaos and fear (It's like Kristallnacht! It's 9/11!!) and making Putin really, really happy right now.
Back to top

Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 3:51 pm
Sadie wrote:
Fox, how do you think people on this forum would react if ICE were separating Jewish families in the country illegally instead of Hispanic families? Do you really think I’m wrong that people would be outraged? I find that very hard to believe. Do you not find it problematic that there were no reports of white children being separated from their families as a result of this policy, even though there are many white illegal immigrants in the country?

Truthfully, yes. I think you're wrong. There are many people on Imamother who subscribe strongly to a "do the crime, do the time" philosophy. I'm not one of them, because I believe that justice is frequently miscarried for a variety of reasons. However, think back to the conversations about R' Rubashkin. There were many people who argued forcefully that his crimes deserved whatever punishment he was given, even if that punishment was atypical and reflected prosecutorial malfeasance.

I don't know what criteria you use to classify people as "white," but I think it's overreach to claim that simple racism is the only factor in how illegal immigrants are treated.

Let's take a typical situation: Elena comes from Romania as a student and overstays her visa, working off the books or finding some other workaround. She was issued a visa, giving the U.S. the opportunity to check her criminal history, etc.; she simply overstayed and worked illegally.

Now let's look at Marisol, who comes from Honduras and crosses into Texas via Mexico. She is doing the same thing as Elena, but with the difference that Marisol never had a visa -- even as a student or tourist. We have no idea who she is or if she has a criminal background. And, actually, one of the reasons Southern border security became a more pressing issue was because of the number of immigrants coming from Africa and the Middle East with ties to Islamic terrorism whom ICE was detaining.

I've frequently advocated for the Napster model of immigration: Napster and file sharing sites were put out of business not by applying legal sanctions, but by iTunes, etc., offering downloads at a price cheap enough that it was less aggravating to get songs legally than illegally.

Ideally, I believe we should apply the same logic to immigration. The reality is that we do need seasonal immigrant labor, and we want to attract productive people to the U.S. If we streamlined the process of getting a temporary work permit; gave tax breaks to businesses employing seasonal workers who comply strictly; and offer a route to permanent residence and/or citizenship for workers who maintain a clean record -- I believe we could serve everybody better and put the coyotes out of business.

Sadie wrote:
Naturalmom5, I’m very sorry that that happened to you, but ICE and DYFS are not the same and the situations are not comparable. I am sure that there were children crossing the border who needed to be separated from their guardians for their own safety, and sometimes in those cases they overreach and make mistakes. That’s more comparable to DYFS overreach but that’s not what was happening there. This was a blanket policy without even the hint of suggestion that it was done in order to protect the kids themselves.

You seem to be insisting that border detentions are simply a matter of racism and xenophobia, but the evidence suggests that trying to balance safety of potential illegal immigrants themselves, concern for importing cartel violence, and humanitarian issues has been a challenge for the U.S. for a number of years and through several Presidents.
Mother Jones

Given that 80 percent of women and girls are raped as they make the journey to the U.S. and given that 10,000 people have died trying to make it to the U.S. in the past 20 years, it is vital that people be deterred from making the attempt. President Obama not only tried various forms of separation, but even sent VP Biden on a tour to send the message that illegal immigrants would be deported.

Family separation is obviously not ideal, and I don't think anyone wants toddlers being "ripped" from their mothers' arms. But using that imagery to dumb down a complex subject and paint anyone who sees those complexities as a racist who wants to keep brown people out is both wrong and inaccurate.

And the attempt to demonize ICE is especially awful. I hoped the recent photo of the 6-year-old, traveling alone, who was abandoned by a coyote in the desert and rescued by ICE would help people see that this is more complex than the "ripping toddlers" trope. But it seems not.
Back to top

Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jul 18 2018, 4:52 pm
sushilover wrote:


But whether you agree with my assesment or not, Putin interfered in the election in order to create chaos. If he can't get intel to control Trump, the best Putin can hope for is the media jumping to the conclusion that he has intel anyway, thus creating the chaos Putin so badly wanted.
So who is actually helping Putin right now? You are convinced that it is Trump. I haven't seen evidence to prove that. All I see is the media creating an atmosphere of chaos and fear (It's like Kristallnacht! It's 9/11!!) and making Putin really, really happy right now.


Thing is, none of this had to happen. Why did Trump have to give Putin this meeting? His advisors didn't think it was a good idea. But Trump wanted it, so he got it. What was the agenda? What did Trump and Putin agree to during their 2 hour meeting? Now Trump is kvetching that the media is only covering the press conference, not his yooooogely successful meeting. Well, duh. How can they discuss it if nobody knows what went on? It's 3 days later and we still haven't heard from anyone--not the secretary of state, not the national security adviser, what went on. Don't you think we should know?

Trump supporters have this weird idea that we should treat Trump both as the president and a private citizen. What did he discuss with Putin? none of your business. Does he owe money to Putin? none of your business. Is he profiting off the presidency? none of your business. Yet we're supposed to trust him to represent OUR business.

One thing that we do know came up is that they discussed handing over Bill Browder and Paul McFaul to Russia for interrogation. Sarah Sanders confirms that this came up and is being discussed by the national security team. Do you realize how unprecedented this is? That we can't trust our government to dismiss such a suggestion out of hand? That they would even entertain such a concept?

you think I'm sitting there glued to CNN and MSN swallowing up lies and slander about the president. All I'm doing is following along like everyone else to the actual televised news conference and interviews. I can hear Trump's words for myself. I can see his weakness and groveling before an enemy of America. I dont need anyone's hyperbolic commentary to tell me what went on.

If you want to blame the media for the fallout, then I ask you what the purpose of Trump going to Helsinki. Nobody forced him. He chose this. I don't know why.
Back to top
Page 7 of 9   Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> In the News

Related Topics Replies Last Post
So disappointed with dd today
by amother
20 Mon, Mar 25 2024, 8:57 am View last post
Any fleishig fast food place open today?
by amother
11 Sun, Mar 24 2024, 4:53 pm View last post
Please Say Tehillim for Hostages today, Purim 149 Sun, Mar 24 2024, 10:55 am View last post
Can I make green beans today for the Purim Seuda?
by amother
0 Fri, Mar 22 2024, 6:56 am View last post
Anywhere to buy at this point a large isreali style toy gun
by amother
7 Thu, Mar 21 2024, 7:21 pm View last post