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Dividing money for Sheva brochos
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Thu, Aug 16 2018, 4:08 pm
These things happen all the time. Middle kids end up doling out the most because they pay double: for the younger ones' marriage and babies, and for the older ones' babies and children's marriages.

Yet on the receiving end they get less cuz single/younger ones don't pay for their own marriage and babies, and the older ones - there aren't enough of them to do something substantial e/o together.
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rachaelle




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Aug 16 2018, 6:23 pm
I don’t get why kids are allowed? Sounds like effort is being put in to make this an elegant Sheva brachos (waiters, fancy plastic). Doesn’t sound like 22 kids will be conducive to the atmosphere...
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amother
Natural


 

Post Thu, Aug 16 2018, 6:26 pm
rachaelle wrote:
I don’t get why kids are allowed? Sounds like effort is being put in to make this an elegant Sheva brachos (waiters, fancy plastic). Doesn’t sound like 22 kids will be conducive to the atmosphere...


I agree. I usually do think kids should come but I actually thought we were trying to make it more elegant and little kids wouldn't come.
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amother
Natural


 

Post Thu, Aug 16 2018, 6:28 pm
This whole thing triggered me when they asked if we can all pay 20 dollars extra for a light for the room so it's more elegant. I wrote back I rather not spend more. Not sure if they doing it or not.
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amother
Seafoam


 

Post Thu, Aug 16 2018, 7:36 pm
This is why I don't think sibiings/sibilings in law should be doing a she a brachos together.

Its not just about splitting evenly but clearly u dont agree with how they are spend the money like u said u don't agree to use such expensive plastic and...u also don't agree to have kids there. Clearly, they don't agree with u. Its easy for the ones who disagre with u to say u are being petty but really everyone is being petty in their own way and everyone has that right bec each of us are different and may not spend the same way.

U have every right to "put ur foot down" and say no, I'm giving x amount and if its not enough then they can leave the kids home.... Of course ppl in the family will be angry at u but it seems either u will feel really angry and resentful and give in to their wishes or speak up and demand doing it ur way.

This is the part of simchas where ppl forget that its supposed to be a happy time/simcha, not a time where ppl are putting demands on other family members and making them angry (opposite of simcha). U seem resentful from giving in all the other times they demanded of u. I can definitely relate.



I said, I would not do a sheva a brachos together for this reason. Clearly, u are not allowed to have a say so this is not "together". They just want ur money. Therefore, if the sibilings get along and all have a say, then its nice but if only certain sils/sibilings make the decisions and then says it costs x, everyone give x, then it can be frustrating to the other sibilings who were not given permission to give ideas to lower costs. In the end, this she a brachs is making machlokes not togetherness.

I can relate as my sil likes to do all these "together ideas" but doesn't let me have input in the decisions/choices but then demands that I pay so I feel like she's my boss and its not something Done together.

Basically, u can't "win". Some relative will say you are petty, just be happy for the simcha and give the money...while others may be silent and wish they had the courage to speak up like u. Whatever u decide, u must find a way to let go of the resentment bec its stressing u out, so I feel for u.
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amother
Natural


 

Post Thu, Aug 16 2018, 7:50 pm
amother wrote:
This is why I don't think sibiings/sibilings in law should be doing a she a brachos together.

Its not just about splitting evenly but clearly u dont agree with how they are spend the money like u said u don't agree to use such expensive plastic and...u also don't agree to have kids there. Clearly, they don't agree with u. Its easy for the ones who disagre with u to say u are being petty but really everyone is being petty in their own way and everyone has that right bec each of us are different and may not spend the same way.

U have every right to "put ur foot down" and say no, I'm giving x amount and if its not enough then they can leave the kids home.... Of course ppl in the family will be angry at u but it seems either u will feel really angry and resentful and give in to their wishes or speak up and demand doing it ur way.

This is the part of simchas where ppl forget that its supposed to be a happy time/simcha, not a time where ppl are putting demands on other family members and making them angry (opposite of simcha). U seem resentful from giving in all the other times they demanded of u. I can definitely relate.



I said, I would not do a sheva a brachos together for this reason. Clearly, u are not allowed to have a say so this is not "together". They just want ur money. Therefore, if the sibilings get along and all have a say, then its nice but if only certain sils/sibilings make the decisions and then says it costs x, everyone give x, then it can be frustrating to the other sibilings who were not given permission to give ideas to lower costs. In the end, this she a brachs is making machlokes not togetherness.

I can relate as my sil likes to do all these "together ideas" but doesn't let me have input in the decisions/choices but then demands that I pay so I feel like she's my boss and its not something Done together.

Basically, u can't "win". Some relative will say you are petty, just be happy for the simcha and give the money...while others may be silent and wish they had the courage to speak up like u. Whatever u decide, u must find a way to let go of the resentment bec its stressing u out, so I feel for u.


Thank you and u r right. I feel like the family never gets together. I have tried in all different ways to get together on a Sunday, chol hamoed, etc and it never happens.( At least with me. I find out afterwards sometimes how they went here it there. I am not usually included. I don't know if it's on purpose) I live an hour from my in laws and they have been in my house twice. Most of them have never been here and I do live 4 years in my house. I go in for all their stuff but can't say the same thing to my stuff. I know they go to the others more often.
It does hurt me. In my side of the family I am the one who usually makes the parties...I usually contribute the most there but I honestly really really really enjoy hosting and making parties. I have such a great time. Over here is was so happy to do it. ( I own lots of supplies so would have actually been about 200 dollars cheaper and least shlepping but wtvr) but it was literally pulled out from under me. I guess I am super resentful so I don't feel like paying for their kids. Happens to be I am making literally half the meal....
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amother
Goldenrod


 

Post Thu, Aug 16 2018, 9:47 pm
amother wrote:
Thanks for the validation. It happens to be I am smack in middle of the family but our family is extremely different types. The older half is more heimish/streimel. The younger half is down hat. Not yeshivish. Usually the older half (who have many kids) are very petty to the penny. When we buy a gift it's literally to the cent. The younger siblings usually end up contributing a lot more just because we aren't usually as petty or can afford more. Also as the younger half we don't usually have much of a voice about things. I usually shush up. (Most of them actually owe me money I laid out from the last simcha). I guess because of the politics and lots of hurt feelings going on from the wedding I don't want to pay more than my share. I would gladly have paid had things been said upfront but they weren't and it was a huge surprise to me that so many kids were coming.


I wouldn't give to this sheva brachos until they paid me back for the previous simcha that I laid out money for.
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Thu, Aug 16 2018, 10:56 pm
Op, I totally understand you.
But from experience, there’s no right way to figure these things out. Somebody will come out disappointed every time.
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Orchid




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 17 2018, 1:26 am
I don't think OP is being remotely petty, especially since they always nickle and dime her AND owe her money. It also seems as though they made an about-turn by inviting all kids at the eleventh hour. That said, I'm not sure how far you should take this. If it were me, I'd probably cough it up and stew in resentment. And make sure to get every single detail ironed out up front for next time, although that won't help if they abruptly change things on you and expect you to foot "your share." This whole thing is icky. I'm sorry, OP.
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Orchid




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 17 2018, 1:27 am
amother wrote:
I wouldn't give to this sheva brachos until they paid me back for the previous simcha that I laid out money for.


Or even better...deduct it from the amount you are expected to give now.
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chocolatecake




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 17 2018, 2:07 am
Generally speaking when hosting a sheva brachos things are split evenly regardless of who is bringing kids or not.
I personally really dislike when my immediate family makes simchos and doesn’t invite the kids. My brother just got married and his inlaws did not invite any kids to shabbos sheva brachos so we didn’t go.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 17 2018, 7:39 am
If you invite, you pay. If someone else tells you who to invite, you are not the host.
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Orchid




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 17 2018, 7:45 am
chocolatecake wrote:
Generally speaking when hosting a sheva brachos things are split evenly regardless of who is bringing kids or not.
I personally really dislike when my immediate family makes simchos and doesn’t invite the kids. My brother just got married and his inlaws did not invite any kids to shabbos sheva brachos so we didn’t go.


I think the general rule you state above works well when all is decided in advance. But this is a case where the siblings all made changes to the initial $ amount behind her back, at the last minute, where she doesn't agree with the changes. Kind of nasty to force her to cough up the extra money in this case.

And I agree with you about the kids. But here, they just sprung a change on her.
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amother
Natural


 

Post Fri, Aug 17 2018, 8:04 am
Orchid wrote:
I think the general rule you state above works well when all is decided in advance. But this is a case where the siblings all made changes to the initial $ amount behind her back, at the last minute, where she doesn't agree with the changes. Kind of nasty to force her to cough up the extra money in this case.

And I agree with you about the kids. But here, they just sprung a change on her.


Op here. I also agree that kids should be invites to a shabbos. I also have no problem with kids coming. I am not bringing my kids as it's is [crazy] for me to. I don't have a problem if there are kids there however I still feel if u are bringing 8 kids you should pay for ur kids. If I brought that amount of kids I would definitely offer to pay more since I have kids coming. If I had known on the beginning it wouldn't be a big deal as I can afford it bh. However there has been a lot of hurt feelings since the engagement and I was was hurt many many times. I was especially hurt when this Sheva brochos was pulled out from under me with no warning and no one gave a darn. As I stated I was willing and actually really really wanted to host. AND THEY ALL KNEW SINCE WE WERE DISCUSSIBGBTHE MENU ALREADY WHEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY SENT A TEXT OUT THAT SOMEONE ELSE IS HOSTING. I was treated like no one cares about me and now I don't feel like paying for their kids. I don't see why I should. If I was dealt with like a mentch I would feel differently but I wasn't. And I am hurt. That being said....I don't feel like contributing to their kids. Again I am being petty but it is coming out of hurt. I am the one who always offers to host first. Tries to get together. Etc. Most have them have never even come to me since "it's too hard and I am to far" but I am expected to drive in for every little thing. Ironically I am "too far" but they go to the others who are an hour further than me. I am literally a minute off the highway. Same with my in laws. They will go to a wedding in the hall four minutes from my house but God forbid ever even stop by.

I guess I am hurt.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 17 2018, 9:00 am
chocolatecake wrote:
Generally speaking when hosting a sheva brachos things are split evenly regardless of who is bringing kids or not.
I personally really dislike when my immediate family makes simchos and doesn’t invite the kids. My brother just got married and his inlaws did not invite any kids to shabbos sheva brachos so we didn’t go.


I think not inviting kids to Shabbos Sheva Brachos is different than a weeknight Sheva Brachos, since it's generally harder to farm kids out for a weekend....
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Fri, Aug 17 2018, 9:08 am
I feel for both sides. I’m the oldest with 7 kids, and I get left out of everything. Everyone has much smaller families, and they tend to feel that occasions are more pleasant without my family (that feels great btw), and on the other hand, as someone on a fixed budget, I wouldn’t want to have to pay more than my share.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 17 2018, 9:15 am
amother wrote:
I feel for both sides. I’m the oldest with 7 kids, and I get left out of everything. Everyone has much smaller families, and they tend to feel that occasions are more pleasant without my family (that feels great btw), and on the other hand, as someone on a fixed budget, I wouldn’t want to have to pay more than my share.


Do the kids from the smaller families get invited, and just your kids excluded? Or is it everyone's kids?

I have a daughter who is shidduch age, and B"EH when she gets married, I'll have alot to consider....what I see as usually done in my circles is that siblings of the Chassan/Kallah get invited with their kids, but aunts and uncles get invited as couples. It's simply too expensive to invite all the cousins to Shabbos Sheva Brachos - it can cost as much as another wedding!

Then again, imagine if one of my kids marries someone who is the youngest of a large family, and has a bunch of married siblings with nieces and nephews....there could easily be over 50 grandkids. Besides for trying to find places for them all to stay, that would really be over the top in terms of budgeting. Limits have to be set somewhere. One can't expect the Baalei Simcha to simply absorb costs that they cannot afford.
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Orchid




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 17 2018, 11:08 am
amother wrote:
Op here. I also agree that kids should be invites to a shabbos. I also have no problem with kids coming. I am not bringing my kids as it's is [crazy] for me to. I don't have a problem if there are kids there however I still feel if u are bringing 8 kids you should pay for ur kids. If I brought that amount of kids I would definitely offer to pay more since I have kids coming. If I had known on the beginning it wouldn't be a big deal as I can afford it bh. However there has been a lot of hurt feelings since the engagement and I was was hurt many many times. I was especially hurt when this Sheva brochos was pulled out from under me with no warning and no one gave a darn. As I stated I was willing and actually really really wanted to host. AND THEY ALL KNEW SINCE WE WERE DISCUSSIBGBTHE MENU ALREADY WHEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY SENT A TEXT OUT THAT SOMEONE ELSE IS HOSTING. I was treated like no one cares about me and now I don't feel like paying for their kids. I don't see why I should. If I was dealt with like a mentch I would feel differently but I wasn't. And I am hurt. That being said....I don't feel like contributing to their kids. Again I am being petty but it is coming out of hurt. I am the one who always offers to host first. Tries to get together. Etc. Most have them have never even come to me since "it's too hard and I am to far" but I am expected to drive in for every little thing. Ironically I am "too far" but they go to the others who are an hour further than me. I am literally a minute off the highway. Same with my in laws. They will go to a wedding in the hall four minutes from my house but God forbid ever even stop by.

I guess I am hurt.


I really feel for you. This whole thread is really about the straw that broke the camel's back. I would feel deeply hurt if I was hosting, we were deep in menu discussions, and I suddenly got a general text that -oh, actually, someone else is taking your place and you're shunted aside. With all that history and this new change, I also wouldn't want to pay extra to host another 50 kids. I'm sorry. My unsolicited advice would be to stop trying to engage them so much and set your bar on acceptable behavior really low for these people...at least you're not disappointed when they keep pulling the rug from underneath you.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 17 2018, 11:29 am
amother wrote:
It's way more because everyone is bringing kids that I didn't even know were invited. Let them not bring them if they can't afford to pay for it. I don't feel I need to pay for their food. I am taking about an extra 50 to 70 dollars per couple. There are three of us not bringing any kids at all....

If it was in a restaurant would it be different? The last two Sheva brochos we made I also had no kids there and were in halls and catered. I paid evenly....but relaly don't feel like doing it this time...


Huh?

You assumed that it was 35 people. But people are bringing kids under 12, so there will be 50. That's 15 additional children, all under the age of 12. (From your first post)

Then you said here that it would cost $50 to $70 more for each of 8 couples to do this.

So $400 to $560 to feed 15 young children? At someone's home? What are you feeding them?

When you agree to host a sheva bracha, you agree to host. That means you split the cost wit your co-hosts. You don't tell your co-host that she has more kids.

It would be have been perfectly acceptable for you to decline to host. But you're hosting, so you need to pay.
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questioner




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Aug 17 2018, 11:40 am
Taking a step back, this sounds like a family sheva brachos. Sheva Brachos aren't just a social obligation, they are to make the chosson and kallah happy. So, I'm thinking - will kallah SIL be thrilled to have her adorable nieces and nephews at the sheva brachos? (Can the kids contribute in some way to the sheva brachos - sing some grammen or such about their wonderful aunt?) If so, I would feel that they are part of the sheva brachos and should be split just like entertainment and decor.
OTOH, if kallah would rather a quiet sheva brachos without boisterous kids running around, and parents are bringing the kids to save on a babysitter, they should pay for their own kids. (But serve them smaller portions)

Not that I would bring the question up with my family and get into fights "Of course SIL loves my kids!" "No, she goes nuts from your wild boys, but she likes my adorable little baby"
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