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Aliexpress kosher sheitels, whats the hechsher?
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amother
Smokey


 

Post Mon, Aug 27 2018, 7:36 pm
I dont think that statement is correct to make

Rav Ovadia Yosef writes clearly in a teshuvah that all wigs are forbidden to wear- behalacha- and he brings very strong proof and sources for this. He wasnt only writing this psak for sephardim and there have been groups of Ashkenazic Jews that have studied the topic and have come to the same conclusion as Rav Ovadia Yosef.
In his teshuva Rav Ovadia Yosef writes that Rav Moshe Feinstein is incorrect in permitting wigs and its a mitzvah to publicize this. Of course this is a contraversial topic and one that is always debated- but my point is that there can be strong disagreements in halacha- regarding the actual halachic basis for wearing a wig and regarding the issue of tikrovas AZ
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amother
Scarlet


 

Post Mon, Aug 27 2018, 8:12 pm
amother wrote:
I just wanted to say that the chances that all sheitel hair come from India are way too great. Just to create one sheitel many 'pony tails' are needed, and us jews are only a tiny percent of those who use human hair for wigs. Only in India, the hindu woman is ever so happy to shave her hair from her own will as part of her sacrifice, and that hair gets tossed around the world until it reaches the head of Yiddishe Mammas including those that have tags saying they are from Brazil, Ukrain ect. Hair goes back and forth and visits several countries, and so t's impossible to control the source of hair when it's shipped around so much.

Think of it, for what price would a woman agree to shave off her hair? Even the poorest Brazilian woman wouldn't. And we would need thousands of those a month who are willing to do such a thing. In India, the hindus do it out of their own will, for free.

It's so sad when you think of it, we would never allow a certain brand of meat to enter the house that is known to be %99 Kosher, with just a tiny chance it is treif. For some reason, when it comes to Sheitel wearing, we just brush it off even though it is so likely the very same hair used as Tikrovet Avoda Zara - which is worse that worshipping Avoda Zara itself. This no joke, to think that as we daven and light the shabbos candles, walk into shul for Neila and say viduy - with most likely one of the three aveiros that a jew should sacrifice his life for on our head.

To the one who mentioned to ask your local Rabbi, it's about time we realize that not every local rabbi has vast knowledge in every area. There's no way they can, as much as they are trained to know the whole torah, some areas need a lifetime spent to real know and be updated as the years go by. When it comes to Sheilos that are related to such terrible aveiros one should ask someone who's been there, traveled the world and spent and still spends hours researching this very complex topic.

On a personal note, if the concern of Avoda Zara was the only one I would get my sister to outgrow her hair and create a shaitel on my own, and she would with mine. But because the styles of today's sheitels of 2018 has gone out of hand, I began wearing a simple snood, even at weddings. My brother got married last week and I can write a book about the emotional journey I went through being the only woman with a bandana in the hall. I used to think like so many of us that the reason a married woman covers her hair is because her own hair is not allowed to be seen in public, for no understandable reason. If I saw someone wearing a snood with too much hair sticking out I would be proud of my sheitel because it held back my hair so well. Today, after looking into it on a very deep level I know that it's not like Para aduma, something we do without a reason that doesn't make sense, rather the one and only reason we cover our hair is because hair is attracting to men and when a girl gets married and becomes an 'Ayshis Ish' she must conceal herself more, and a head full of hair is one of those things she should no longer walk outside with. When it comes to attraction, it doesn't matter if it's the woman's very own hair or someone else's. The concept of not revealing too much hair while wearing a snood comes from the Zohar, as a good chumra to do. The big aveira is having men see an ayshes ish with hair, and since today's sheitels are usually much more beautiful and striking than her own, it's a scary thought how many of us are sinning throughout a life time without even knowing. The zohar is a hiddur, not a more tzniyus way of dress rather more like a kabala for having righteous children. Because what's a few hairs compared to a sheitel?! It's mind boggling that such a basic explanation of this mitzva we aren't taught and is very little known. It's crazy how I used to think that as long as it's easy to tell it's a wig, it's fine, while in reality there isn't even one source to that!

The Rabanim have long given up, it's a lost case, even though a breach of tzniyus for a married woman is Deavizraihu Giluy Arayos. I saw a few clips of rav elyashiv, the gadol hador, saying sadly that he knows no one would listen to him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRmEOtrdDmI

The Sheitels of 180 years ago when it first became popular to wear them outside after the jewish nation had been wearing kerchief's for 2,000 years, many rabanim were very against., the heter was B'diEved. The haskala in Germany was the major cause for the breach of pritzus, and in Russia the anti-Semitism. Fast forward to our generation, no more haskala, and anti-Semitism in regards to covering hair also not b"h, but the few rabanim who ruled wearing a sheitel in public is mutar, were referring to the wigs they had then, which means a style no one nowdays would even turn their head to give a glance. I cringe when I remember how innocent I was, thinking I was making a kiddush Hashem by putting on my updated sheitel when I stepped outside.

I once spoke to a baalas tshuva, and she told me that Judaism was so easy to adapt to and understand, but when it came to covering hair and everyone tought her that sheitels is the way to go, she just couldn't get it. It felt like finding the easy way out while gaining something much better while you're at it. Today she's used to it and enjoys every minute of the gorgeous appearance only a sheitel can create.


Wow, that was long.... I planned to use my screen name but due to the sensitivity of this topic I'm afraid of being attacked, though I know that in each and every Neshama the truth is very much there, even though it is so hard to see the right path in a such a lost generation like ours where even local rabanim, are struggling to show us the light and many times, see it themselves.


So are u saying that my rav and every rav who allows the human hair wigs are wrong bec they dont know when to ask a great posek as they may not know about the topic??? In that case why ask any rav any shaila if we cant rely on our rav to say "I dont know about wigs let me ask a great posek or do research"....

Are u saying that unless we ask a rav who really kbows about this topic who will surely forbid it, then we are wrong and are sinning??

U seem to think "only ur way is the right way" which is why theres such hatred between certain types of stricter yehudim and some more "modern" bec they like u, believe that their way is correct and everyonelse is sinning, losing holiness....

Wow!
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Tue, Aug 28 2018, 4:41 am
goodmorning wrote:
On what basis do you say that tikroves avoda zara is worse than worshiping avoda zara? There are even opinions that tikroves a"z is d'rabanan.


I'm not the one saying these things, gedolim greater than me.

מבואר ברמב"ם בפרק ז' הלכה ב' דתקרובת עבודה זרה אסורה בהנאה, ובפשטות איסור זה הוא מהתורה. ]והגר"א כתב )יו"ד קנ"ה סקי"ד( שזהו ביהרג ואל יעבור, מדין אביזרייהו דג' עבירות חמורות.[ ומיוחד הוא הדין של תקרובת עבודה זרה, שאין לה ביטול, וחמורה מע"ז עצמה, ]שבע"ז עצמה אם הגוי שברה וכדו' הרי היא מותרת בהנאה, משא"כ בתקרובת ע"ז[. ולכן אם אותו שיער המגיע מהודו יש לו דין תקרובת, אז גם אם הגוי מבטל אותו בידים - אין זה נחשב ביטול ועדיין זה אסור מדין תקרובת ע"ז.

What's your source?
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Tue, Aug 28 2018, 4:59 am
amother wrote:
So are u saying that my rav and every rav who allows the human hair wigs are wrong bec they dont know when to ask a great posek as they may not know about the topic??? In that case why ask any rav any shaila if we cant rely on our rav to say "I dont know about wigs let me ask a great posek or do research"....

Are u saying that unless we ask a rav who really kbows about this topic who will surely forbid it, then we are wrong and are sinning??

U seem to think "only ur way is the right way" which is why theres such hatred between certain types of stricter yehudim and some more "modern" bec they like u, believe that their way is correct and everyonelse is sinning, losing holiness....

Wow!



I see you're having a hard time accepting the reality that even rabanim can make mistakes. Moshe rabbein himself is an example, though I totally understand you, I've had a hard time with it myself. The best way to deal with this confusion is through Ahava's habriyos and Yiras shamayim, but for some reason you jumped to the conclusion that I'm full of hatred towards the rest of the world. Don't know how you got to that, must be because facing the truth is so hard especially in a touchy topic such as this.

I'm just a simple jew yearning to do what Hashem really wants, and that's something to admire, but as I said, you're so worked up - naturally (I also was when I first starting looking into this), and so you chose to see things that very much aren't.

I continue to look up to our family rav who told me wearing a sheitel is okay melecatchila. My family has tremendous kavod towards him, and we ask him many sheilos such as Shabbos, Kashrus, T.H which schools to send our kids, ect. If I ever have a question with a halacha issue that stems from one of if three major aviros that are yehareg veal yaavor, much worse than not keeping shabbos and eating kosher, I will turn to a gadol hador of today's generation, or if I can't reach one because they are so few I'll ask some other tzadik who's fluent with that topic inside and out.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 28 2018, 8:50 am
amother wrote:
Rav Moshe said, "I knew Rav Ploni. He was a big tzaddik with tremendous siyata dishmaya. I have never had such a thing happen to me in all the agunos I permitted to marry, and I was certain it would never happen to him. Therefore, I knew that the woman was lying."

I am expressing no opinion about the sheitel issue, I do not have any horsehair in this race, but why would Rav Ploni, as great as he was (and I'm not doubting that, even not knowing who he was) have had more siyata dishmaya than the entire Sanhedrin, which can issue a mistaken ruling permitting something for which the penalty is Karet, and large numbers of people sin? What to do if that happens is discussed in Rambam, Hilchot Shegagot starting at chapter 12, https://www.sefaria.org.il/Mis.....ns.12
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amother
Linen


 

Post Tue, Aug 28 2018, 3:33 pm
Quote:
why would Rav Ploni, as great as he was (...) have had more siyata dishmaya than the entire Sanhedrin, which can issue a mistaken ruling
Hmm, excellent questions, Imasoftov. I will try to ask DH later.

Although another Rav Moshe story comes to mind.

People came in to Rav Moshe and told him a Jewish child had been hit by a car outside the Yeshiva. (The story teller was not sure why they came to tell him, perhaps to ask him to daven etc.)

Rav Moshe said, it's not a Jewish child.

But, Rosh Yeshiva, the child was found with a yarmulka next to him.

It's not a Jewish child, said Rav Moshe again.

Later it emerged a non-Jewish child had been chasing a Jewish child and grabbed the Jewish child's yarmulka. The child hit by the car was indeed not a Jewish child.

But how did Rav Moshe know? He answered, I was sitting here learning. It's not possible that a Jewish child would be injured right outside.

Now of course things happen all the time, not bad things, because nothing is bad, but painful things. And it happens although there are tzaddikim sitting and learning. But whatever Hashem does is good, so whatever happens is good.

So I don't understand anything.
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 28 2018, 5:36 pm
amother wrote:
Wow Ginger- I am blown away!!

Thank you for sharing all that info and kol hakavod to you for what you are doing!

Wow! happysmile1 is impressed with poster going-up's posts masquerading as amother ginger.
She even liked her own post as amother.
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goodmorning




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 28 2018, 6:18 pm
amother wrote:
I'm not the one saying these things, gedolim greater than me.

מבואר ברמב"ם בפרק ז' הלכה ב' דתקרובת עבודה זרה אסורה בהנאה, ובפשטות איסור זה הוא מהתורה. ]והגר"א כתב )יו"ד קנ"ה סקי"ד( שזהו ביהרג ואל יעבור, מדין אביזרייהו דג' עבירות חמורות.[ ומיוחד הוא הדין של תקרובת עבודה זרה, שאין לה ביטול, וחמורה מע"ז עצמה, ]שבע"ז עצמה אם הגוי שברה וכדו' הרי היא מותרת בהנאה, משא"כ בתקרובת ע"ז[. ולכן אם אותו שיער המגיע מהודו יש לו דין תקרובת, אז גם אם הגוי מבטל אותו בידים - אין זה נחשב ביטול ועדיין זה אסור מדין תקרובת ע"ז.

What's your source?


I think that you might have misunderstood. The source that you're quoting here says that deriving benefit (hana'ah) from tikroves avoda zara (something used for the purpose of worshiping avoda zara) is less severe in one particular aspect than deriving benefit from the avoda zara itself. Specifically, the prohibition against deriving benefit from tikroves a"z continues even if the item was nullified (bittul), whereas it's possible to nullify an idol itself (bittul a"z) and then it is permissible to benefit from.

That does not in any way mean that deriving benefit from tikroves a"z is "worse than worshipping Avoda Zara itself," and this quote should not be understood as saying that.

(Although the Rambam holds that tikroves a"z is d'Oraisa, see Tosafos Bava Kamma 72b dibur hamaschil "de’I." Not that it's overly relevant one way or the other, but if comparing severity of two acts, it's important to make the distinction.)
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amother
Ginger


 

Post Mon, Sep 03 2018, 3:11 am
goodmorning wrote:
I think that you might have misunderstood. The source that you're quoting here says that deriving benefit (hana'ah) from tikroves avoda zara (something used for the purpose of worshiping avoda zara) is less severe in one particular aspect than deriving benefit from the avoda zara itself. Specifically, the prohibition against deriving benefit from tikroves a"z continues even if the item was nullified (bittul), whereas it's possible to nullify an idol itself (bittul a"z) and then it is permissible to benefit from.

That does not in any way mean that deriving benefit from tikroves a"z is "worse than worshipping Avoda Zara itself," and this quote should not be understood as saying that.

(Although the Rambam holds that tikroves a"z is d'Oraisa, see Tosafos Bava Kamma 72b dibur hamaschil "de’I." Not that it's overly relevant one way or the other, but if comparing severity of two acts, it's important to make the distinction.)



Took a while for me to clarify what you brought up. I asked dh to ask one of the rabanim who deal with this issue and it seems like yes, defiantly it is not worse than doing avoda zara itself, it's just that with tizkrovet there is no bitul, and towards the idol itself there is. The maharshal in Amudei Shlomo says that the reason is because the Ruach Raah in tikrovet catches on to the person quicker. And so the טומאה of tikrovet A"Z is worse than the טומאה of A"Z itself.

ולרבי יהודה בן בתירא מטמאה באוהל כמת ולר"ת בתוס' (ע"ז לבSmile אם עשאה כעין של פנים, בזיבוח או הקטרה גם לרבנן מטמאה כמת, משא"כ עבודה זרה לכו"ע מטמאה רק כשרץ ואינה מטמאה באוהל עי' (שבת פב: וע"ז מזSmile.

Meaning, the טומאה a person can get from enjoying something that was used for a Tikrovet is on the level of Tummas Meis, which punishment is כרת which is much more than the level of טומאה from avoda zara.

So yes, wearing a Sheitel with all hairs or even one hair that came from India after they gave it as a gift - tokrovet - to an idol is a far from simple. Is it worse than A"Z? No. But it's still a terrible thing, and it's crazy that life goes on and no one, hardly anyone pays attention to this major concern.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 03 2018, 6:21 am
amother wrote:
ולרבי יהודה בן בתירא מטמאה באוהל כמת ולר"ת בתוס' (ע"ז לבSmile אם עשאה כעין של פנים, בזיבוח או הקטרה גם לרבנן מטמאה כמת, משא"כ עבודה זרה לכו"ע מטמאה רק כשרץ ואינה מטמאה באוהל עי' (שבת פב: וע"ז מזSmile.

Meaning, the טומאה a person can get from enjoying something that was used for a Tikrovet is on the level of Tummas Meis, which punishment is כרת which is much more than the level of טומאה from avoda zara.

It's not true that tumat meit is punished by karet, nor does the Hebrew above say so. Now if someone eats kodoshim or enters the mikdash while tameh they are punished by karet, but that's also true of some lesser degrees of tumah.
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