Shul with active female section on Simchas Torah

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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Succos

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seeker

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 11:00 am

My DD is deeply upset about being the only one in our local shul without a dad present Sad

The truth is around here kids her age don't really hang out with the dads anymore anyway, and she'd probably have a good time in shul hanging out with her friends, but her perception is what it is and I'd like to see if there might be a better option. We're not super yeshivish but we're too right-wing for mixed dancing.

Looking in the general NY area but it doesn't have to be in NY.

Sebastian

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 11:28 am

That is tough. At a shul I often go to, has hakafos after mussaf in their social hall. There is a seuda for everyone and the women can watch the men dance. There are table separating the men and women so it's easy to see what's going on. The kids get bags of candy and toys and are very involved.

Is there no shul near you that does something like this?

Hugs to your dd!

seeker

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 11:40 am

It's not really fun to watch men dance when none of the men are yours and everyone else has one.

amother

Cobalt

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 11:42 am

If you want to travel, at Rabbi Goldberger's shul in Baltimore the women dance, also (not with a sefer torah)!

seeker

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 11:43 am

Maybe! I know people in Baltimore. The slight glitch is that I should really go to work in NY Wednesday morning...

teachkids

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 11:48 am

In my experience, more modern Shuls tend to have more action for the women.

seeker

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 12:31 pm

However, our family is not modern and I don't want to create confusion for my kids by basically telling them that our way of life is less fun. So if you have a specific RWMO shul with something going on for girls that doesn't require a father bringing them into the action, please do share.

amother

Sienna

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 12:40 pm

In Philadelphia, the shul I go to has part of the mechitzah open so women can watch the dancing and part closed so women and girls can dance behind it if they want. No dancing with the Torah, nothing super leibadik, but I have seen it make a big difference for many females who want to feel included/participate.

I know that's at night. Not sure about during the day.

seeker

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 12:48 pm

amother wrote:

Are there kids/little girls involved?

amother

Sienna

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 12:55 pm

seeker wrote:

Are there kids/little girls involved?

Yup. It's mostly younger girls (and really little boys, too). There are some teens and adults too adding to it, but it's not geared towards them per say. I think it's the kids who want/need it more.

They have dancing and then do a round of Limbo, so the younger you are, usually the better you do ☺️

seeker

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 1:21 pm

Do you mind sharing the name of your shul please? I will reach out to people in Philly. It's a bit far but just in case... you never know...

simcha2

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 1:22 pm

The truth is Simchat Torah is not geared towards women. Even in our solidly mo shul it's pretty parev. A mechitza with women dancing, but nothing that intense compared to the men's. Lots of sitting around. Some women feel very strongly they want to dance with the Torah. There's a machlokes.

ST day there is a lovely mother daughter teaching and learning during the aliyas.

amother

Green

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 2:51 pm

I was that kid without a father on the men's side. Yes, I had fun with my friends and enjoyed candy, but I was very aware that there was no one on the other side for me, when everyone else had someone.

seeker

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 2:53 pm

So what do you suggest can be done to make this better?!

Sebastian

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 2:59 pm

is there a grandfather/uncle/other close male relative who can be the father figure?

seeker

Fri, Sep 21 2018, 3:16 pm

No. I have some cousins who could probably pitch in but the girls aren't really close to them and the one who's more sensitive (the DD mentioned in OP) isn't interested in a substitute. She is (very understandably, but also frustratingly) hung up on her wish for a fairytale perfect life. She's kind of like that with everything, but this is where it really hurts (the other stuff is more like "well if I can't have ice cream and french fries then I don't want to go to the pizza store!" and then she gets over it. But when it's "If I can't have my own father then I'm just not going to shul and going to be miserable all yom tov" you can't exactly say "fine, be miserable then" the way you do when it's pizza.)

amother

Coral

Sat, Sep 22 2018, 10:16 am

Our shul has dancing on both sides of the mechitza, with a sefer torah on each side.

But we are in Israel -- not an easy commute for you!

shabbatiscoming

Sat, Sep 22 2018, 2:21 pm

simcha2 wrote:

That is not a true statement. It may be true in some communities but not everywhere. I grew up in a lovely modern orthodox community where there was always a very lively women's dancing during the hakafot.
And now I live in a community where the women dance as well. And just last year there was a psak that the women could dance with the torahs as well, as in hold the torahs while dancing. We always have lively dancing on both the men and omen's side of the mechitzot.

If I lived in a community where women just watched men dancing, I just would not go to shul.

And OP, what about starting a group of women dancing in your shul? Would that work? Would that be allowed?

Sebastian

Sat, Sep 22 2018, 5:14 pm

poor kid. I'm sorry seeker. It can't be easy for you either.

amother

Violet

Sat, Sep 22 2018, 5:14 pm

I thought I posted before shabbos but I dont see it. Young israel in passaic. Rwmo, warm and inviting with action on the women's side as well. It is truly a beautiful experience and I have disliked simchas Torah atmoosphere in many shuls.

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