Opinion please, another bar mitzvah question

amother

Powderblue

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 8:14 pm

I'm thinking about inviting an acquaintance to our upcoming bar mitzvah who is Jewish but not frum and has no Jewish background. She's not close enough to be insulted if not invited (I don't think).

I would love to include her, but I'm nervous that guests might treat her in a way that's less than tactful.

I feel very uncomfortable telling her beforehand how the women will be dressed, but I also don't want her to feel conspicuous for being dressed differently. I can imagine some guests giving her odd looks (imagine multiple earrings, a tattoo if not covered, low cut blouse, etc).

What do you ladies think?

amother

Indigo

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 8:19 pm

be open with her. FYI: my guests are a little xenophoic when it comes to people not dressed like them. Govern yourself accordingly.

Rachel Shira

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 8:22 pm

In my circles people would welcome her warmly either way. But you can definitely say something like “most women will be wearing some kind of skirt and a full coverage top, but please feel free to dress however you’ll feel comfortable.”
She’ll use her judgment and probably dress very appropriately.

thunderstorm

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 8:22 pm

Who will she sit with? Will everyone just snob her out and make her feel awkward? If they will have an issue with her dress they may just ignore her which will make her feel really uncomfortable .
My mother and her old neighbor are BTs and have lots of non frum relatives coming to Simchas. They had a pact between each other that when each make a simcha the other fills in as the "entertainer" and "company" at the table of the non religious guests, so that they don't feel left out. The baalas simcha is usually busy and can't give that one on one attention etc.

amother

Slateblue

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 8:42 pm

There’s a “modest attire requested “ norm

But if she’s not close to you and different from the other guests then why do you want to have her if it can be uncomfortable?

amother

Powderblue

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 9:06 pm

Thank you, these responses are right on target and just what I needed to hear.

amother wrote:

There’s a “modest attire requested “ norm

But if she’s not close to you and different from the other guests then why do you want to have her if it can be uncomfortable?

This is a good question. I think she's a good person and I wanted to make that gesture of reaching out. But you're right, it might not be the right thing.

amother

Indigo

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 9:15 pm

amother wrote:

Thank you, these responses are right on target and just what I needed to hear.

This is a good question. I think she's a good person and I wanted to make that gesture of reaching out. But you're right, it might not be the right thing.

Do you think its an event she would want to be present at?

I mean I try to invite people to events because I genuinely think they would want to be celebrating with me.

amother

Powderblue

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 9:19 pm

amother wrote:

Do you think its an event she would want to be present at?

I mean I try to invite people to events because I genuinely think they would want to be celebrating with me.

I don't know. But in general I take the approach of, better to invite and they don't come, then risk insulting someone by not inviting.

amother

Indigo

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 9:31 pm

amother wrote:

I don't know. But in general I take the approach of, better to invite and they don't come, then risk insulting someone by not inviting.

you said you've love for her to be there. was that genuine, or are you inviting her so that she won't be insulted.

You also implied that you don't care how she would be dressed - only care that she shouldn't be snubbed - so "modest attire requested' is a bit disingenuous.

amother

Powderblue

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 9:48 pm

amother wrote:

Yea I wouldn't say that, but I liked the poster who suggested being honest and saying, this is how most will be dressed. Although I don't know if I would actually have the guts to say that.

amother

Powderblue

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 10:20 pm

amother wrote:

you said you've love for her to be there. was that genuine, or are you inviting her so that she won't be insulted.

I already said I don't think she would be insulted if not invited.

amother

Indigo

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 10:24 pm

amother wrote:

I already said I don't think she would be insulted if not invited.

Okay so then you are inviting her because you want to celebrate with her. Genuinely. Seems weird to me you'd pull that back because you are worried about her fitting in.

amother

Indigo

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 10:26 pm

amother wrote:

Yea I wouldn't say that, but I liked the poster who suggested being honest and saying, this is how most will be dressed. Although I don't know if I would actually have the guts to say that.

So say - 'pardon me for making an assumption, but is this your first invitation to a religious Bar-Mitzvah, anything questions for me?'

penguin

Tue, Oct 16 2018, 12:00 am

If there a lot of speeches she won't understand (even if officially delivered in what passes for "English" in some of our circles) will she be bored? Do you have a friend or relative who would take this woman under her wing, explain things to her etc?

Amarante

Tue, Oct 16 2018, 12:37 am

Like others, I am confused as to why you want to invite her.

Not that there is anything wrong with inviting her but it doesn’t appear that you have a close relationship or that she knows your son. Without knowing more, it is difficult to understand whether she has any expectation at all of receiving an invitation.

Speaking for myself it is hard enough for me to go to large gatherings where I don’t know anyone let alone be plopped into a social scene where other people might objectively snub me. In most social gatherings people are willing to chit chat especially if you are seated at a table with them but you seem to think that she might be actively ostracized.

Has she expressed an interest in participating in this important event in your life? I have worked at places where women were getting married and althiugh I was happy for the,, I didn’t have any particular desire to attend the wedding.

amother

Pumpkin

Tue, Oct 16 2018, 3:43 am

IME, any instructions you give about clothing should be VERY specific.

We went to a simcha where the respectful non-Jewish guest had clearly been asked to wear a long-sleeved, high-necked, knee-length dress, and she complied to the letter.

It was also skintight, had slits, and was made of lace...

DrMom

Tue, Oct 16 2018, 7:03 am

amother wrote:

I think you cannot expect guests to wear extremely specific clothing. Give general guidelines, and hope for the best, and realize that people come from different backgrounds.

BTW, I have seen Orthodox women wearing long-sleeved, high-necked, knee-length, tight lace dresses and killer heels and long shampoo-ad sheitels.