Pros and cons of the flu shot

amother

Coffee

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 6:40 pm

Just took a flu shot with DD. DH will be getting one on his way home.

We take flu shots every year, and every year DD and I have sore arms for a day or two. DH doesn’t get a sore arm, but feels mildly fluey for a day or so (which DD and I don’t feel). So I guess the shot affects different people differently.

We get the shots every year, and B”H we have not gotten the flu, since we started taking them. We realize that the shot is not always effective at preventing the flu (since it may be for a different strain), but it reduces the severity and chances of complications if one does get it - well worth the (minor) side effects in my book.

Right now medical advice is overwhelmingly in favor of the vaccine. Much/most? Of what happens to us in life is beyond our control, but following medical advice is our hishtadlus. . .

amother

Cerise

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 7:07 pm

I try to think big picture.
It may prevent the flu in a questionable number of people but it weakens the person overall.
We don't know the long term effects of injecting those things into the body because those are not studied.
Also saying the majority recommends is not a valid point in my opinion. It's all coming from the same source- the CDC which has not been straightforward to say the least.
I try to strengthen my immune system, keep vitamin D levels up

amother

Cyan

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 7:19 pm

amother wrote:

They have been studied but ok.

southernbubby

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 7:20 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com.....69f89

According to this article, in America alone, there were 900,000 hospitalizations for the flu and 80,000 deaths.

All of those people who went to the hospital were treated with medications so if avoiding a flu shot causes a person to have a bad enough case of the flu to need treatment, they will end up taking medicine regardless. And again, some of those people were vaccinated and got sick anyway; it isn't fool proof but there is also the strong possibility that those who remained healthy while others got sick relied on the vaccine.

The medical system in the UK was basically shut down due to the flu and all elective procedures had to be cancelled.

Personally even if something had only a 20% chance of preventing me from catching the flu, I would rather have 20% chance than none. I generally think of myself as immune to everything but then I caught a stomach bug on Succos and was totally miserable so I would stake my bets on the vaccine. I took it today, have a bit of soreness, but have been busy packing to move.

Frumwithallergies

Mon, Oct 15 2018, 7:44 pm

amother wrote:

I am not anti-vaccine and I don't have an agenda. I am actually on the fence right now about the flu shot.

But I AM against people saying that there are no side effects to the flu shot.

Here is the CDC's list of serious side effects:

"There may be a small increased risk of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) after inactivated flu vaccine. This risk has been estimated at 1 or 2 additional cases per million people vaccinated. This is much lower than the risk of severe complications from flu, which can be prevented by flu vaccine.
Young children who get the flu shot along with pneumococcal vaccine (PCV13), and/or DTaP vaccine at the same time might be slightly more likely to have a seizure caused by fever. Ask your doctor for more information. Tell your doctor if a child who is getting flu vaccine has ever had a seizure."

The CDC says the risk is 1 or 2 additional cases, there is much anecdotal evidence to claim that the actual numbers are much, much higher. Also, read the second paragraph.

I am on the fence right now about the flu vaccine. I have never given it yet to any of my children, and b'h never had any problems. But last year's statistics scared me.

I'm in the field, for the record, and I feel so strongly that I will post under my screen name. Every patient with Guillain Barré Syndrome that I saw last year was CAUSED BY the influenza VIRUS.

Yes, most GBS is post-infectious. More GBS is caused by the virus than the vaccine. Does the through cross my mind every time I get the vaccine? Yes. But I still get it, for myself, for my husband who had chemo and radiation, for my asthmatic DD.

amother

Indigo

Tue, Oct 16 2018, 4:12 am

eema of 3 wrote:

My kids all got the flu last year, the longest it lasted was 3 days. Yes, they all had positive swabs. I didn’t give any of them tamiflu because it has terrible side effects, and anyway I wasn’t sure that I was within the window, so why put them through that if it’s too late anyway?
I did not give flu shots, I never do.
Regarding the people who died from the flu, there is no record of who died from the flu itself and who died from something else, like pneumonia. I’m not saying people didn’t die from the flu, just that he number is inflated.
And before you jump on me and say I’m anti-bad and I have an agenda, my kids are all vaccinated.

Sheer ignorance! I work in healthcare and have watched many in the ICU hover between life and death with flu related complications. Many died. Some had weakened immune systems, but those with no prior medical history were not immunized. The reports you hear may be within the Jewish community. How about contacting the CDC for real data?

Ema of 5

Tue, Oct 16 2018, 4:44 am

amother wrote:

How about following the rules, and not insulting me as another? You have no idea where I get my info from, who I am, or what I do. Don’t make assumptions.

southernbubby

Tue, Oct 16 2018, 5:39 am

About half of the hospitalized flu victims last year had heart disease and the flu elevates the risk of a heart attack.

Some groups of people are truly at higher risk of being hospitalized or dying of the flu. That being said, I don't think that the numbers of mortality and morbidity are inflated. 100 years ago, a large percentage of the world's population was wiped out in a flu epidemic and it was so bad in this past year that some hospitals had to erect tents to treat all the victims.

We know that this is a disease that has the capacity to spread rapidly, affect large groups of people, and kill within hours or days. Last year was a bad year for the flu and we can only hope that this year will be better but last year only 50% of the population was vaccinated. The rest either didn't believe in it or procrastinated.

Often it only takes one episode of the flu where the person will never neglect vaccination again. My brother is self-employed and after spending 2 weeks in bed one winter, decided never again to put off this important step in preventative health.

And if someone is already getting medical treatment for asthma, heart disease, cancer, etc. saying that putting this foreign protein in their body may have long term consequences won't sell. These people need to stay alive now!

amother

Copper

Tue, Oct 16 2018, 8:41 am

Cheiny wrote:

30,000 last year.

The actual number I've seen quoted is 80,000.

But guess what? How many children died from the flu last year, one of the worst flu years in history?

According to the CDC, 172 children died of the flu last year. While every child is precious and we don't want anyone to die, that's hardly an epidemic and is hardly cause enough for the hysteria I see on this site and elsewhere. And I would also imagine that the vast majority of those had other underlying conditions such as asthma.

Contrast this to the average of 12,175 children who die each year of unintentional injury (according to the CDC), with the highest death rates due to traffic accidents. Yet somehow, this is not making the headlines. Cars are getting smaller and more unsafe, and no-one is saying a word.

Personally, my mind is made up. The chances of getting a reaction to the flu virus seems to me to be higher than actually getting hurt by the flu virus itself.

southernbubby

Tue, Oct 16 2018, 8:53 am

amother wrote:

Most of the deaths from the flu are in people ages 65 and older. To many people, they would be bothered for the rest of their lives with the "what if?" aspect of losing a child to a possibly preventable disease. My car may not be the safest vehicle on the road but I might still want to install a smoke alarm.

As far as children's deaths, most were under age five and about 50% were healthy prior to catching the flu: https://www.sciencedaily.com/r......htm.

I am also wondering if your mind would be made up for the elderly or sick. Would you tell people with health conditions not to take a flu shot?

amother

Copper

Tue, Oct 16 2018, 8:59 am

southernbubby wrote:

I'm talking about my own children now. I am not making any decisions for anyone else. I did not do any research on the elderly so I have no idea.

Too many people I know have gotten sick from the flu shot itself, and the side effects scare me. Plus, they are made in eggs and some of my kids have egg allergies.

50% of nothing is still nothing.

I would focus on good hygiene and keeping children healthy.

southernbubby

Tue, Oct 16 2018, 9:03 am

amother wrote:

Egg allergies are a different matter. Some people can't safely take vaccines. This doesn't mean that vaccines are dangerous or ineffective.

Most likely, children will not die from the flu.

itsmeima

Tue, Oct 16 2018, 10:07 am

Fox wrote:

Don't get flu shots because of how sick you've determined you or your kids are likely to be. Yes, healthy kids die from flu and its complications, but a relatively low number.

Instead, get flu shots for all the people your kids and family members come in contact with. Because many of those people die from flu and its complications in much, much higher numbers.

The school secretary whose elderly father lives with her.

The cashier who helps takes care of her sister, who is a transplant patient.

The co-worker who is meeting her brother, who is HIV+, for lunch today.

The playmate next door, whose mother is an active Bikur Cholim volunteer.

The receptionist whose child has a trach.

Flu is highly virulent. You can pass it along before you feel the symptoms yourself. You may not even recognize that you have the flu until a day or two into the illness.

Getting a flu shot to make the disease less virulent isn't just about your own health and well-being. It's about the health and well-being of everyone you come in to contact with before you realize you're sick. If you want to do chesed for the sick, elderly, or those with vulnerable heath, a flu shot is one of the easiest things to do and one of the most valuable.

Thank you!

...and can I add my son (with asthma). He may be in your sons class/school!

amother

Blush

Wed, Oct 17 2018, 9:29 pm

Fox wrote:

Well said Fox.
Please everyone, kol yisroel areivim zeh l'zeh. do it for my sick baby who is trached, has respiratory issues & has a suppressed immune system.
do it for my other kids so they can go to school.
Thank you! may Hashem protect us all from all sickness.

amother

Salmon

Wed, Oct 17 2018, 10:53 pm

My grandfather who was in his nineties had congestive heart failure and lived in assisted living. He (and all other residents and workers) got yearly flu shots and there was never a flu epidemic nor did any of the at risk elderly people ever die from a flu shot.

Over the years he did have various upper respiratory/lung diseases because his severe congestive heart failure put him at risk for lung infections but he never got the flu.

For me it is clear cause and effect that flu shots while not 100% effective do have a great life saving impact.

I just got my flu shot yesterday and have been getting them for the past 20 years. I have never gotten the flu nor have I ever suffered any ill effects from a shot. I had the flu a few times when I was young and stupid and before there was a climate of encouraging flu shots and I wouldn't wish that sickness on my worst enemy. As others have posted, I was almost too weak to get out of bed to perform basic toilet functions like urinating.

FWIW, there is the first reported death of a child from the flu this week in Florida.

amother

Plum

Wed, Oct 17 2018, 11:27 pm

Quote from the CDC: "flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine" (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm)

(Translation: Between 40% and 60% of those we estimate to catch the flu won't catch it due to the vaccine, based on the overall population [excluding, for example, seniors who the vaccine is less effective for] during seasons where we guessed the primary flu virus correctly [in many years, they don't].)

Quote from Professor Alfred Hero: "drinking juice, and eating fresh fruits and vegetables to load up on antioxidants may be the answer to avoid getting sick with the flu" (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/44275043/ns/health-cold_and_flu/t/why-some-people-dont-get-flu/#.W8gm1i-ZNZg - from a study where they infected people on purpose)

The standard flu vaccine is even less effective on those aged 65 and over, so if a senior has been taking the vaccine for years and never gotten the flu, it might not have been due to the vaccine. (This year they are trying a stronger vaccine for seniors which may be more effective.)

IOW, although the flu vaccine may be part of your strategy to avoid the flu, don't ascribe to it mythical powers OR underestimate the protective effect of a generally healthy lifestyle which may be even more important than the vaccine.