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Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children
Are sleep overs safe?
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Miri7




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 18 2018, 11:42 pm
amother wrote:
I am so sorry for your pain and commend your honesty and ability to tell at such a young age.

This is an important post to all amothers: abusers are not just DHs/dysfunctional families. Innocent-looking 11-year old girls can be perpetrators too.


This is sometimes seen as experimenting and inappropriate touching. I’m not an expert, but it depends a lot on the particular situation, and there are differences when a child, who isn’t understating, is curious and does inappropriate things bs when an older person touches a child inappropriately or for gratification.

It’s my understanding that with two young kids, the goal is to educate and not to blame and shame. The kids often have no idea what they are doing.

Not trying to dismiss anyone’s feeling here.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 19 2018, 1:43 am
All that goes on behind closed doors? That also applies, sadly, to family.
Chas veshalom. Life is risky. You evaluate and decide.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 19 2018, 1:45 am
Nah, lets out all of our children into nice big bubbles, until they are ready to marry and then let them out.
We cant keep our children from living and experiencing things.

But I think that to keep kids from sleep overs is a bit much. I dont coddle my child. I give all of the love in the world, but I let her experience life.

My child has been going on sleep overs since she was about 6 years old. It never crossed my mind to not allow sleep overs.


And for those talking about what the "man of the house" might be like, just think, not all molesters are male, or even adult.

Things can literally happen anywhere, but we have to let our children live and have experiences. Otherwise, whats the whole point of it all?
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oneofakind




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 19 2018, 7:21 am
I don't know the answer to this question but I'll add my two cents anyway. I personally know of molestation perpertrated by fathers, brothers, uncles, grandfathers, teachers, and counselors. If there is a crisis or new baby, a child can't sleep over at their cousin's house?

If I knew the friend (although you never really know) I let my kids go for Shabbos or sleep over. If I didn't, I asked about them and their families. It was sometimes inaccurate but I tried. Best story was when I wasn't letting my daughter sleep over by a family and invited her here and found out that the mother didn't want her daughter by me for the same reason and invited her there.

I generally don't allow single male guests of my neighbors ( I have a guest room that neighbors use to put people up for simchos) to use my guest room. If ever there was a single male, I told my children to lock their bedroom doors.

You do have to know your daughter and her crowd to know about inappropriate talk and such. You also have the same problem in sleep away camp.

Two of my friends were assaulted by men as teenagers. One was pretty serious, one less so. One was random, one was by a coworker (that one was serious) Both were frum.

We have to daven really hard.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 19 2018, 8:23 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Nah, lets out all of our children into nice big bubbles, until they are ready to marry and then let them out.
We cant keep our children from living and experiencing things.

But I think that to keep kids from sleep overs is a bit much. I dont coddle my child. I give all of the love in the world, but I let her experience life.

My child has been going on sleep overs since she was about 6 years old. It never crossed my mind to not allow sleep overs.


And for those talking about what the "man of the house" might be like, just think, not all molesters are male, or even adult.

Things can literally happen anywhere, but we have to let our children live and have experiences. Otherwise, whats the whole point of it all?


Yes Yes Yes

I refuse to look at every person in the world and say "I think you may be a molester." (Women molest too, you know.)

I refuse to limit my children's experiences in life based on an abstract risk.

Some of my kids act like they're a roving band of homeless kids, camping out at one house or another. And there are nights I find random spare kids on the couch or on someone's floor. "Oh, yeah. It was too late for her to go home; we didn't think you'd mind."

We have to listen to our children. We have to arm them. No, its not OK for your teacher to wrestle with you while he's in his underwear. (Can someone explain why so many teachers did this?)

But we also have to allow them to live and experience the world. And pray for the best.

I vividly remember the first time I allowed my oldest to go to a friend's place on his own. I called the other boy's mom to tell her when DS left. I watched from the window. She watched from her window. She called me when he got there. It was scary for me. There was risk. But he needed to do it.

And sometimes, they also need to be part of that roving band of kids who have sleepovers
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sky




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 19 2018, 8:46 am
I let my girls sleep at cousins homes. I trust them fully b’H. This way they get the experience.

Even sleep overs in my own home with other girls I’m not 100% comfortable about.
I once had a good friend try to convince me to do something I was uncomfortable with, nothing really bad, but a lack of Tzinius Group sleepovers were also were girls would try to play games to get girls to reveal secrets or personal inyformation. It always made me uncomfortable Makes me think before allowing sleepovers.
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 19 2018, 8:52 am
sky wrote:
I let my girls sleep at cousins homes. I trust them fully b’H. This way they get the experience.

Even sleep overs in my own home with other girls I’m not 100% comfortable about.
I once had a good friend try to convince me to do something I was uncomfortable with, nothing really bad, but a lack of Tzinius Group sleepovers were also were girls would try to play games to get girls to reveal secrets or personal inyformation. It always made me uncomfortable Makes me think before allowing sleepovers.

I hear you . But please understand that whatever risk your child has by going to a friend's sleepover they have at their cousins house.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 19 2018, 8:52 am
sky wrote:
I let my girls sleep at cousins homes. I trust them fully b’H. This way they get the experience.

Even sleep overs in my own home with other girls I’m not 100% comfortable about.
I once had a good friend try to convince me to do something I was uncomfortable with, nothing really bad, but a lack of Tzinius Group sleepovers were also were girls would try to play games to get girls to reveal secrets or personal inyformation. It always made me uncomfortable Makes me think before allowing sleepovers.


Of those molesting a child under six, 50 percent were family members. Family members also accounted for 23 percent of those abusing children 12 to 17 years. So there's no particular reason for you to trust your cousins. In fact, since 95 percent of s-xually abused children will be abused by someone they know and trust, they may be your worst choices.

Kids play games where they reveal secrets. What's so troubling about that?
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Fri, Oct 19 2018, 9:52 am
In order to have a sleep over, I would have to know every member of the family, especially the males WELL. That means, having them over a lot shabbos. Long term friendship. Hearing stories from the wife about the husband/ older sons, etc. Even with that, I would never be 100% comfortable. I would always offer to do the sleepover at my house instead.
I had two friends my mother didn't let me play at when I was a kid. Both seemed like perfectly normal, integrated, respected people in the community. One later got arrested for child [filth]. The other is has become increasingly more inappropriate with other woman in the community. Sometimes you have gut feeling. USUALLY you don't. take as few chances as necessary/
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perquacky




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 19 2018, 10:09 am
I'm curious. For those who allow sleepovers at their house but don't allow their children to sleep over at friends' houses, how do you explain to your child that they can have friends over, but they can't go over to friends?
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rgr




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 19 2018, 10:21 am
SixOfWands wrote:


We have to listen to our children. We have to arm them. No, its not OK for your teacher to wrestle with you while he's in his underwear. (Can someone explain why so many teachers did this?)



In what world does this happen? Can you clarify please?
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 19 2018, 10:26 am
rgr wrote:
In what world does this happen? Can you clarify please?


http://www.nydailynews.com/new.....83374

https://www.jta.org/2018/10/05.....dents

For a couple.
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sky




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Oct 19 2018, 12:08 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
Of those molesting a child under six, 50 percent were family members. Family members also accounted for 23 percent of those abusing children 12 to 17 years. So there's no particular reason for you to trust your cousins. In fact, since 95 percent of s-xually abused children will be abused by someone they know and trust, they may be your worst choices.

Kids play games where they reveal secrets. What's so troubling about that?


I hear you. I don’t suspect every person or male of being a molester. That’s not the only reason I’m not pro sleepovers. So I’m more comfortable with family.
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miri11211




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 25 2018, 1:06 pm
Miri7 wrote:

A huge concern of mine coming out of the Kavanaugh fiasco was girls and boys hearing adults say they didn’t believe Dr Ford.


Actually very good lesson for our kids coming out of this fiasco:
If you will lie about an assault, you won't be believed.

Miri7 wrote:

Hearing people say she shouldn’t have been there. So the kids internalize that adults won’t believe them and somehow it’s their fault....


Also a good thing for kids to internalize:
If you are a 14-15 year old girl (or boy), DON'T go to parties where there are drunken 17-18 year old boys.
Especially not when the party is a few miles away from home.
And especially without telling your mother anything, not beforehand and not afterwords.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 25 2018, 1:17 pm
miri11211 wrote:
Also a good thing for kids to internalize:
If you are a 14-15 year old girl (or boy), DON'T go to parties where there are drunken 17-18 year old boys.
Especially not when the party is a few miles away from home.
And especially without telling your mother anything, not beforehand and not afterwords.


Why isn't the lesson that boys shouldn't drink to excess, particularly if they can't control themselves. And if they can't, they should stay home.
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miri11211




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 25 2018, 2:00 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
Why isn't the lesson that boys shouldn't drink to excess, particularly if they can't control themselves. And if they can't, they should stay home.


I agree, that's a good lesson as well.

But if there is such a party going on with boys drinking excessively,
then even if you don't plan to drink, don't go there.
Especially, if you are a girl a few years younger than the boys.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 25 2018, 2:14 pm
miri11211 wrote:
I agree, that's a good lesson as well.

But if there is such a party going on with boys drinking excessively,
then even if you don't plan to drink, don't go there.
Especially, if you are a girl a few years younger than the boys.



Exactly! Parents need to be on the alert and also educate their kids about hanging out with other kids who are up to no good. My parents used to tell me to stay as far away as possible from kids who were breaking the law in regards to alcohol and drugs. There was a kid in the neighborhood who loved to shoplift and my parents wanted me to stay far away from her. Ditto the 3 girls my age at 14 who became mothers that year. At least they had each other for friends but my parents wanted me to choose friends who liked school and shul activities, not kids who were likely to end up in jail or in the maternity ward.

And yes, we "good" girls were taught that nothing good came from visiting a boy in his dorm room or being alone with a boy anywhere. A visit to a frat house meant that a girl's reputation was at stake. The boys knew which girls were loose and which were devoted to preserving virginity.

And if there was underage drinking going on, the police were likely to show up and no kid wanted a "record".
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Oct 25 2018, 2:22 pm
perquacky wrote:
I'm curious. For those who allow sleepovers at their house but don't allow their children to sleep over at friends' houses, how do you explain to your child that they can have friends over, but they can't go over to friends?



I used to be involved with the Russian Jewish community (through Chabad) and nearly all of the parents were totally against sleepovers of any kind. Nobody trusted anyone else and nobody wanted the possibility of accusations either. It was fine to play together during the day but everyone went to their own homes at night.

My DD doesn't allow her children to sleep at the homes of other kids but she allows her kids to have sleepover guests. (we are not Russian!).
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