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Who is classified as a good person?



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Ravenclaw




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Nov 10 2018, 11:27 pm
My friend and I have long disagreed on this, and I would love to hear others’ take. Is a good person only someone who does good, or also someone who means well, but sometimes errs in their judgement of how to be good?
I personally believe that someone with good intentions (as in what I believe to be good intentions) can be considered good. I may think more ch of their actions are evil, but I would not consider that individual them self an evil person. For example, if someone spanks their children and believes that to be the best way to raise children, I see their action as bad but wouldn’t call them a bad person. Therefore, I tend to look at most people as inherently good, though I disagree with many of their actions.
My friend says though that the Torah is based on actions, not intentions. So if someone consistently does something bad, this makes them a bad person.
Just to clarify- although you could argue that according to my logic even Nazis had what they believed to be “good intentions” in their own twisted way, I digress because I do consider their goals and intentions as evil, therefore can consider them to be an evil individual.
But it’s an interesting discussion, and even I confuse myself at times so I would love to hear others take on it.
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amother
Red


 

Post Sat, Nov 10 2018, 11:54 pm
Ravenclaw wrote:
My friend and I have long disagreed on this, and I would love to hear others’ take. Is a good person only someone who does good, or also someone who means well, but sometimes errs in their judgement of how to be good?
I personally believe that someone with good intentions (as in what I believe to be good intentions) can be considered good. I may think more ch of their actions are evil, but I would not consider that individual them self an evil person. For example, if someone spanks their children and believes that to be the best way to raise children, I see their action as bad but wouldn’t call them a bad person. Therefore, I tend to look at most people as inherently good, though I disagree with many of their actions.
My friend says though that the Torah is based on actions, not intentions. So if someone consistently does something bad, this makes them a bad person.
Just to clarify- although you could argue that according to my logic even Nazis had what they believed to be “good intentions” in their own twisted way, I digress because I do consider their goals and intentions as evil, therefore can consider them to be an evil individual.
But it’s an interesting discussion, and even I confuse myself at times so I would love to hear others take on it.



I think a good person is someone who has the quality where they are concerned about others. People who donate their time and money so that others can benefit are good people. People who are careful to never hurt another persons feeling and always have a kind word to say, are good people. Obviously if the are doing it for personal gain (kavod) it doesn't make them a bad person but they are really doing it for their own gain and I therefore wouldn't say they are necessarily good people.

I think your getting confused and mixing up effective techniques to achieve something and inherently "good" qualities. For example I don't think spanking children can be used to characterize a person a either good or not good. It is a technique or measure that is used to discipline and train children. You can agree or disagree with it but I don't think it would define someone one way or the other.
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dankbar




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 11 2018, 12:19 am
Good people are the givers not the takers
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crust




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 11 2018, 1:15 am
Intentions are too subjective, imo.

A very pushite yid came to a Rav and told him "Rebbe- it sais v'amech kulam tzadikim. It means we are both tzadikim. We might as well be meshadech."
The Rav answered; "yes we are both tzadikim but everyone should be meshadech with his type of tzadikim!!"

Let's divide your question into two categories; there are good people and there are good people that I like to interact with.

A good person is anyone that has good middos;
is nice gentle sensitive caring loving giving and/or considerate.
A good person can listen to someone else, can take advice and favors when necassary, can say I made a mistake and a person with good middos can forgive.

But the list of good middos doesn't end here.


Lets use your spanking example;
A person that is used to spanking needs to possess a lot of good middos in order to change;

1 -First and foremost there needs to be a willingness to learn and change. Willingness in and of itself is a middah tova and praiseworthy.

2 -Being able to listen to constructive criticism requires being humble.

3 -To honestly re-evaluate the way you are doing things requires integrity.

These are the 3 BIG for me.

I don't care if this person is currently spanking.
If this person possesses at least one of the 3 BIG middos then this is still a good person that I like to interact with.

Now how about a person that doesn't think they have to change their way of parenting? If a person has no willingness to learn or to change in this area, is s/he not considered a good person?

My answer is that this person is probably a good person but if this person does not possess any of the 3 BIG then I like to refer to this Ravs advice; Everyone should befriend their version of "good".


(His/her intentions about spanking doesn't justify it in my eyes so believing they have good intentions or trying to understand their intentions will help only if I'm try to be dklz.)
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