No bris for gay couple’s baby after all?

amother

Mustard

Sat, Nov 10 2018, 7:08 pm

chestnut wrote:

1. Iirc, eating non kosher and cheating in business are called abominations, too. Don't recall as much talking about their going against the Torah, as there's about gays
2 and 3 - so when it's about orthodox ppl suffer, we don't know why, but when gay ppl suffer, it's definitely cause Hashem defeats them? It makes sense to you?

1. I think gays are often more open about their lifestyle and openly lead their whole lives in a way that hashem describes as an abomination. Someone who is dishonest in business is usually private about it so it's not as apparent.

2 and 3. I already said we have no idea why anything, good or bad, happens to anyone, good or bad. It's pretty obvious that hashem is not using a scale and weighing mitzvos and aveiros and giving people good/bad things based on this.

amother

Mustard

Sat, Nov 10 2018, 7:16 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

But not permanently.
And what exactly is gehenem about, anyway?

I really don't know. I've always questioned gehenim because it actually seems very spiteful of hashem to after 120, send people to gehenim. At this point what's done is done. What's the point in making the person or their neshama suffer? As far as it being a cleansing process, since we are talking about hashem, who can do anything, why can't he cleanse us without suffering? It seems like nekama. You were bad so now I'm gonna punch you in the face.
As far as what gehenim is, I'll repeat what I learned in my right wing high school. Olam habba is the most pleasurable place, where if we combined all the pleasures of the entire world and put that amount of pleasure into 1 second, it wouldn't be even 1% of the pleasure we feel in olam habba. I think it's fair to say gehenim is somewhat the opposite. I think I was taught that it's 60 times hotter than the sun.

amother

Vermilion

Sat, Nov 10 2018, 10:24 pm

I just want to say a lot of really frum and religious people have a completely different perception of g-d than you. This isn’t based on my own personal emotions but on things that I’ve learnt.

For starters:

1. I don’t believe hashem hates any jew.

2. Other than complete tzadikim I believe that we all spend time in gehanim as a cleansing process on the way to gan Eden. Trust me, we are all sinners. The bar is very high.

3. I believe that hashem wants us to stand up and defend and help all Jews, even those who sin differently or more publicly than us. I base this on Rashi regarding Moshe Rabbienu.
Here’s My biblical proof text as interpreted by Rashi who as far as I know is pretty universally accepted.
Very briefly:
The last three words of the Torah are Leini kol Yisroel. - before the eyes of Israel. The last possukim of the Torah are speaking about the greatness of Moshe. Rashi explains each phrase in the last possuk as referring to different great things that Moshe did. This last phrase Rashi explains refers to Moshe breaking the luchos. Why would that be a great thing? He broke something made byad hashem. So if we look back at Rashi there she Moshe broke the luchos Rashi explains he broke them because they were like a marriage contract between the Jews and hashem and if there was no marriage contract the sin and punishment would be less.

So Moshe was willing to sacrifice the luchos (with no guarantee that there would be a second set) to try and help Jews.

And what kind of Jews? People who were worshipping idols in public 40 days after they heard with their own ears god say don’t worship idols. Aka bad Jews

But Moshe still tried to help them.

And the Torah ends with that idea.

So that’s how lots of people try and live their lives. Not with some skewed perspective of good Jews and bad Jews and punishment and reward. I mean in mishlei it says the Jews who sow discord in the community are an abomination and I don’t see people hating on them so much.