Tehillim for Vaccine injured children

amother

Taupe

Thu, Nov 15 2018, 10:48 pm

Complications are traumatic and life-changing, no doubt about it, but what is the percentage world-wide of kids who developed complications after vaccinations, among all kids vaccinated world-wide, even according to the anti-vaxers?

There are probably way more deaths, percentage-wise, from not vaccinating.

Id love to hear Rabbi Dr Akiva Tatz's opinion on the points made here, who is very pro-vax.

Im sure hes well aware of children having complications shortly after being vaccinated. Everyone knows that this does happen.

southernbubby

Thu, Nov 15 2018, 11:30 pm

amother wrote:

This thread is ridiculous. Vaccines don't cause injuries. Children predispositioned to disorders, illnesses and impairments will often have them triggered by vaccines. If they wouldn't have been immunized then the predispositions would have just come out at a different time but they would still have the same disorders, illnesses and impairments and the parents would just have to look for someone else they can blame.

Our kid had seizures from a vaccine and the doctors and the CDC agreed that the vaccine was the cause and not to further vaccinate that child.

amother

Ecru

Fri, Nov 16 2018, 9:51 am

Why did I post as Amother?

Short answer: because I didn't want to get viciously attacked.

Long answer: in my experience, a lot of anti-vax people exhibit cult-like behaviour around the issue I.e. it is impossible to have a logical discussion about it that doesn't descend into hysteria and personal insults in those that feel threatened by what I say. I want to protect myself from that and stay on this forum in peace by posting as Amother.

In my experience, there are those who are convinced enough by the anti-vax propaganda to simply have lost the ability to critically evaluate the issue and won't be able to listen to other points of view (there is research evidence to support this: doctors giving true information on vaccines are not likely to change the minds of those who have anti-vax views, probably due to lack of trust as the anti-vax propaganda often suggests that vaccination promotion is just about money and invites distrust of doctors in favour of trusting the proponents of anti-vax beliefs). Anything that contradicts what they believe is dangerous to them because of the psychological need to believe in the propaganda.

Just note the ways this kind of brainwashing works (it is the only way you can promote something that has little evidence for it and is not supported by authorities and/or experts who actually know about the area):

-It removes logic and makes the issue emotional eg with fearmongering ("such and such was hurt by vaccinations" even though the evidence may be lacking or it is an isolated case)

-It uses us and them logic ("those evil pharmaceutical companies vs us")

-It tries to provoke our deeper instincts eg disgust. That is why this whole conversation of "monkey DNA!" takes place, however these same people usually don't have any problem ingesting cow or sheep DNA on a regular basis. It also provokes a primitive fear of contamination with "foreign DNA", even though there is little evidence this causes harm (it can't integrate into our DNA like it does in the movies and I am not even sure if any vaccinations really do have monkey DNA today: please educate me if you know more).

-It promotes conspiracy theories about how doctors only advocate vaccinations for money and with that plants distrust in authority figures (this is how other kinds of cults are able to remove people from their families and friends for example).

-It prays on vulnerabilities eg people whose children have illnesses eg seizures, autism who are looking for answers and a way to deal with grief or people who did have vaccination reactions (however which usually would be preferable to catching infections if looked at logically). This way it can create a psychological need to believe in it because it offers consolation and explanation to what happened to a child, something that may not be available in another way eg we don't yet know what actually causes autism but we do know that it doesn't seem to be linked to vaccinations.

-Conveniently, because of the us and them mentality, they fail to present their own evidence or credentials for giving out this information. Somehow people are suddenly able to believe a YouTube clip over a paediatrician of years of experience! This is a red flag to me at least that logic has left the conversation.

If you see this kind of manipulation, RUN!!

This is not true of everyone who refuses to vaccinate: there are people who have personal reasons eg children with certain conditions that reliable research has linked to vaccination complications (these are few and usually those vaccinations have been discontinued) or other illnesses that are not compatible with vaccinating eg immunosuppression, whose children have had reactions before (these do happen) or who have been given misinformation which was convincing enough to sway them but who are open to evidence to the contrary. Equally there are some people who have vaccinated with these culty attitudes.

Finally, you who do write here with your actual username: presumably that is not your real name either, right?

Metukah

Fri, Nov 16 2018, 10:26 am

amother wrote:

I love your post and agree with every word.

Shame you were too scared to use your username.

The anti vax movement definitely seems cult like.

If it was true, why would they need to invest so much time, energy and resources convincing people.

I believe that the reason pro vax don't have so much propaganda is because it's the truth and truth prevails.

I'm not denying that vaccinations may have side effects for some people. Every medication has that, every surgery carries risk, including risk of death. Does that mean people refuse treatment?

No one has ever proven that the risks outweigh the benefits.

amother

Pumpkin

Fri, Nov 16 2018, 10:49 am

All the people that are lining up to get the shot now that there is an outbreak are people who did not truly ever believe that giving their child a vaccine would kill or maim them.
If they really believed it they wouldn’t “poison” their kid now either.
They are clearly using statistics to come to the conclusion that their child has a bigger chance of being maimed by the measles disease than being maimed by the vaccine for measles.

I just wish they realized that earlier.

southernbubby

Fri, Nov 16 2018, 12:24 pm

amother wrote:

I think that some of the long lines were infants as well as adults born after 1957 who had only one dose and possibly of ineffective killed virus. The mystery to me is why this group was never informed of the danger they were and until now they thought that they were immune.

It sounds cult like from a pro vaccine perspective to deny that any child was damaged by vaccines.

amother

Khaki

Fri, Nov 16 2018, 12:40 pm

amother wrote:

YOU ARE WRONG. MOST PEOPLE GOING NOW WERE FORCED. SCARED INTO IT. BULLIED. PUSHED INTO IT. THREATENED. HARASSED. TERRORIZED. INTO IT.
You should be ashamed of the way you are acting. You are so self centered you don't even stop and think about another side.
PLEASE WORRY ABOUT YOURSELVES AND NOT ME.

amother

Lawngreen

Fri, Nov 16 2018, 12:42 pm

crust wrote:

Same here.
The ones that do have injured children have siblings and maternal/paternal siblings with the same issues.

My heart breaks for them but really I think that they dont really buy their story that the vaccines did it. They know its genetic but its easier to give a generic version if the story.

Our society (think shiduchim) has cornered people to stretch truths.

It is more complex than either being the vaccines fault OR being due to some genetic predisposition. It is actually a combination of both: Some children have a genetic mutation that no one in the family may be aware of (as there were no prior symptoms, so no reason to test for it). THEN, when they get vaccinated, they have an adverse response. The vaccine acts as a trigger. The reason for this is that in most people, the vaccine is designed to elicit the body's natural defenses and create antibodies for the disease the child is being vaccinated against. BUT in a child who has either a genetic mutation or a tendancy towards an auto-immune condition, the opposite takes place: Instead of developing antibodies, an body attacks itself and causes an inflammatory response. I could give you links so that you can read for youself, but do not have the time to find them before shabbos.

How do I know all of this? Unfortunately because I have been vaccinating and my daughter became seriously ill. We came in for a vaccination, and my daughter had a red eye that day. I asked the doctor if we should maybe wait until we find out what is going on with her and vaccinate another time, and she(the doctor) was adamant that everything was fine and we should go ahead. The next day, my daughter's eye became bloodshot, and when I took her to see an eye doctor, he called in a senior second physician, and they both started undressing my daughter frantically and running a bunch of tests. We were sent to the hospital and told that my daughter could go blind. I will not go into further specifics, even though this is posted anonymously. It is very painful for me to talk about (yes, even six years later, the trauma is still there). And yes, there was likely a prior condition that we were not aware of. But it was mild, and being vaccinated when this was going on made it so much worse to the point that my daughter nearly lost her vision (Bh, now resorted following years of treatments, tears and prayers). it was negligence on the doctor's part to go ahead an vaccinate when I had pointed that I think my daughter was not well that day.

She no longer works at that practice (I did not file a law suit. There must have been other complaints), and the main doctors at the practice had apologized to me. But I have not given any further vaccinations since, and now have a letter of medical exemption for the school etc.

So not saying I am globally against vaccinations, but there are individuals who do not get the generic, expected responce that the vaccines were intended for, and they should be allowed to make their own decisions regarding these delicate health matters. How to balance their rights with the rights of the public is a very complex and difficult decision, but this is certainly not a black and white kind of thing.

WastingTime

Sat, Nov 17 2018, 1:36 pm

amother wrote:

I think all your pro vaxxers, are being unreal with thinking there are no side effects to vaccinations. I myself know many people who have had very bad reactions to vaccinations. personally I did vaccinate my kids now against measles because I was forced to but don't think vaccines are perfect. when one of your kids chas vshalom dies or becomes really sick directly after getting the vaccine you'll know the other side. I don't wish on anyone what people I know went through because of a safe quote on quote vaccine. any normal person knows that vaccines are not perfect I had four doctors tell me that yes they are pro-vaccination, and we should vaccinate our kids, however all four of them told me there are lots of side effects and you have to weigh the pros and cons. a doctor today told me yes they're not perfect however in this situation you probably should do it. again I hope you never go through what other families have gone through because of a safe quote-unquote shot. the extreme hatred and anger you have towards people who don't vaccinate is abominable. There's obviously something mentally wrong with lots of people in this world.
personally I don't care vaccinate don't vaccinate I couldn't care less what you do so why the heck do you care what I do...

Who said there are no risks? Of course there are risks. But the one in a million chance of complications is much much less than any chance of complications from diseases. Every surgery has a risk, so ppl don't ever operate?

We care what others ppl do because if everyone vaccinated there wouldn't be measles going around and I wouldn't have to worry abt my newborn baby catching it...but you already know (and are bored of) that story I'm sure

Metukah

Sat, Nov 17 2018, 6:49 pm

amother wrote:

Why the shouting?

I know 2 people who don't vaccinate (thankfully only 2) and they both gave all their kids vaccinations now. They weren't forced or terrorised, no one even tried to convince them, but suddenly it hit close to home and they were scared.

Now who's the self centered one? Until now it didn't affect them personally so they didn't care about anyone else, now that there's a measles outbreak they're scared.

Talk about selfish.

crust

Sat, Nov 17 2018, 7:10 pm

Amother Lawngreen I am sorry for the trauma you went through.

I didn't say "no children were ever injured by vaccines".

I wrote about the antivaxxers that I know.
I am not saying that I have seen the entire world.

amother

Orchid

Sat, Nov 17 2018, 7:47 pm

amother wrote:

Really? So out of every single drug that in the world has a list of side effects that happened to actual people in real life, vaccines, and ONLY vaccines, do not cause any injuries?

You mean contrary to what is listed on the insert that happened to people in real life? Including my relatives?

amother

Blue

Sat, Nov 17 2018, 7:49 pm

shame on you OP. did you verify this . two names are recognized as children with verified genetic illnesses that are being blamed on vaccines !

amother

Taupe

Sat, Nov 17 2018, 9:47 pm

amother wrote:

shame on you OP. did you verify this . two names are recognized as children with verified genetic illnesses that are being blamed on vaccines !

OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

amother

Mauve

Sun, Nov 18 2018, 10:59 am

amother wrote:

No one would ever be able to force, scare, bully, push, threaten, harass or terrorize me into doing something I felt could hurt my children.

amother

Mauve

Sun, Nov 18 2018, 11:25 am

Please don't fall for this. I know one of the girls on this list and the only thing wrong with her is that she's a nasty bully. Her mother is a crazy person who happens to be an anti-vaxxer. She will lie, manipulate and say and do anything to convince other people who nebach don't know better. I have so much I can say about her but I'll let this suffice. I just couldn't stand to think that people might be convinced not to vaccinate their children because of this misleading list.

sky

Sun, Nov 18 2018, 11:31 am

amother wrote:

No one would ever be able to force, scare, bully, push, threaten, harass or terrorize me into doing something I felt could hurt my children.

I was going to say this as well

The people who cannot vaccinate are still not vaccinating.

The people who truly believe (for whatever reason) it will harm their child have not vaccinated - and there are mothers who have multiple children home on this conviction.

In some ways this weeded out the ones who truly wont vaccinated from those who were just following propaganda.

momsrus

Sun, Nov 18 2018, 11:31 am

Please post a list of children that were injuring while eating and/or inhaling peanut butter.

amother

Seagreen

Sun, Nov 18 2018, 11:37 am

mommyla wrote:

Thank you. Like I’ve said, I am as pro-vax as they come, but comparing to the Holocaust is absurd and just makes us pro-vaxxers sound like hysterical uneducated morons.

It was an anti-vaxxer who compared to the holocaust.