Can someone smarter than me give me the measles stats?

amother

Sienna

Mon, Nov 19 2018, 6:48 pm

nchr wrote:

It killed thousands of soldiers during the civil war.

The measles killed them? or was it the treatment they were given for the measles?
When ppl say, "so-and-so died from cancer", often, what they're really saying, is the person died from the treatment of cancer. Chemotherapy kills, that's no secret. Sure, some survive, but I don't have enough fingers and toes to count how many close family, friends, neighbors, colleagues, died soon after starting chemo. Did they die from cancer? No. They died from chemo.
I've had face-to-face talks with oncology nurses who cringe at what they're witness to at work. Many are defecting for this reason.

amother

Green

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 12:14 am

amother wrote:

Ummm hi, I went through chemo. Most amazing miracle of my life! (Or not... dunno, but definitely ranks high up on the list!) Could be they died from complications from chemo or could be they died from the disease that chemo got to too late. And even if you're right and it was the chemo, could very well be they would have died anyway from the disease if they didn't even attempt chemo. So if you're considering that treatments are harmful, you need to also think about the option of not having any treatment.

amother

Peach

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 12:59 am

amother wrote:

You're out of your freaken mind, you know?

amother wrote:

Op, a friend sent me this. Maybe of interest to you:

And this:

I think she's got something to do with the movie Vaxxed. I haven't seen it yet.

And keep your garbage for yourself, no need to spread its odor.

Metukah

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 1:53 am

amother wrote:

You know for certain they died because of the chemo? Did you personally do the post mortem?

Never heard such ignorant ramblings in my day.

I don't have enough hairs on my head to count how many people I know who are only alive today thanks to chemo.

I hope you never get cancer because your strong beliefs will be as weak as ever. I am almost sure you would chose chemo over almost certain death from cancer.

Point in case; the 2 non vaxxers I know suddenly ran to vaccinate their families. I thought vaccines were dangerous and they didn't believe in it. What changed? It hit close to home. I actually have zero respect for these people.

Easy to talk when you're not in it.

amother

Honeydew

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 5:34 am

nothing to do with measles but about cancer treatments...its hard to know whats right. my father died from pneumonia. He was battling cancer and the meds weren't working so they admitted him to the hospital in order to switch them to a different med and in the interim he got pneumonia in the hospital...
my mother always says that shes grateful that people didn't second guess the treatment my father got. its incredibly hard to have people say oh if only you went to this doctor or did this treatment he would have gotten better. They did the best they could with the information they had, no way to predict that being in the hospital would have been the cause of him dying...

amother

Brunette

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 6:26 am

I find that the chemo treatments are probably more effective when the cancer is caught early enough. In some cases when one is in late stage cancer, one may decide they are better off without it. The person will die either way, but may live more comfortably without it. It really depends on the individual case and circumstances.

Obviously, it’s up to the person who is ill to choose chemo or not. Contrary to what was written here, chemo is not forced upon anyone. Children will be forced into it because their parents choose for them (it may be viewed as neglect not to choose it for a child), but accepting treatment is a choice for adults. There are those that will not use it depending on their individual circumstance. Also, Unlike vaccines, chemo is a treatment for someone who is already ill. Vaccines are preventative. This makes the comparison somewhat flawed.

A more accurate analogy would be comparing vaccines to a mastectomy to prevent Breast cancer for someone more susceptible to it than comparing the vaccines to chemo which is already after the fact.

southernbubby

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 8:10 am

amother wrote:

And to take your example a step further, vaccines are considered something that a person does for society rather than simply for himself. A person may rather have the immunity that comes from the virus itself rather than the less certain immunity that comes from a vaccine but he is being told that he is letting down the IV opioid users who have HIV but are part of the community as well as people who are immune-suppressed from cancer treatments or because they are too young for the vaccine. Basically, it is the expectation that people take an altruistic approach that we can't compare to anything else. I don't have to donate blood (the blood bank won't take mine) and I don't have to donate a kidney nor was it ever expected of me to donate my ovum or gestate someone else's child. I don't have to let the homeless sleep on my couch.

But when it comes to vaccines, people are expected to take whatever risks that they present, possibly for the sake of people that they don't even know. I personally am not that altruistic. I do get vaccinated for my own selfish reasons, such as not wanting to be sick and so as not to infect my family members. I don't think it would be that compelling to me to do it for the protection of IV drug users who have HIV and may be also riding public transportation so that I could show compassion and acceptance. I am not that selfless of a person. Maybe the Democrats vaccinate for that reason Twisted Evil

When we think about it, many people come down with illnesses during the work day or school day, then take public transportation home, and stop at a clinic or pharmacy before actually isolating themselves, thus exposing dozens of people. Everyone in their homes becomes carriers of whatever illness it is. If people woke up sick, had a doctor come to the house, and a pharmacy deliver, fewer illnesses would spread but our society as well as our diseases don't really work that way.

And again, about a third of American parents are not giving flu shots and the flu presents the same if not more dangers to more people than the measles does. The flu is deadly in the morbidly obese as well as in people with asthma and heart disease. Somehow nobody is calling these parents murderers.

amother

Pewter

Tue, Nov 20 2018, 9:33 am

Metukah wrote:

Point in case; the 2 non vaxxers I know suddenly ran to vaccinate their families. I thought vaccines were dangerous and they didn't believe in it. What changed? It hit close to home. I actually have zero respect for these people.

Easy to talk when you're not in it.

Some people do a risk/benefit analysis before blindly saying "yes" to things. It's not that they think vaccines became less dangerous, it is that the risk/benefit ratio has changed.

Case in point: Did you ever catch yourself making some parenting decision you told yourself you'd never do? I think we can assume that the answer is yes.

Did your beliefs change? No, but the circumstances did.

(I personally think that most anti-vaxers should just have an old-fashioned measles party, stay home until no longer contagious, and then feel free to rejoin the world with immunity more permanent than a vaccine. Not sure why that is not being done.)