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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Why is bullying in school not abuse??not punished by laws??



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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Sun, Nov 25 2018, 10:04 pm
Why is bullying in schools not treated as abuse? My son was literally stepped on on the bus while some kids held him down while kicking him. The only reason the principal did something is bec this boy doesnt listen to that principal and he is not the son of a rich man, but all they did was kick him off the bus for a few days.

...my son was also physically assaulted with kids hitting and kicking him...taking his kippa...all under the leadership and master bully which was the son of the rich board member (and also happens to be the grandson of our rav). But, the school said "they were doing everything they could"...I made a big deal and my son switched to a more modern school with better middos.

But, why is physical bullying not treated as abuse??? Why are there no real consequences for physical bullying??

This is an issue in public schools too. Recently, a boy in nyc public school who was constantly bullied killed his bully and is now in jail. But, many kids who are bullied committ suicide...

Im thinking of this as I read the thread of s-xual abuse/molesting....
Im not comparing but physical bullying is also abuse, why are all schools not treating it as such?? Students are told to tell their teachers if there is bullying but many times these bullies dont even listen to the teacher and the teachers hands are "tied" bec there are no real consequences for bullies even if theres physical abuse...

Why do schools allow their most vulnerable students to be abused by bullies??what are the real consequences???

Im so thankful to hashem that my son found a good school with more middosdik kids so hes not bullied now(except sometimes on the bus bec there are no adults ...)but my heart hurts for all those who are physically assaulted which the world just says "bullied" in a place where everyone should feel safe, school.

Vent over...
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 25 2018, 10:23 pm
My son was tied down to the legs of the seat on the school bus , with his scarf while boys stomped on his head and stomache. The school took it VERY seriously as soon as the principal found out. An emergency assembly was called and the menahel stood up and cried with tears in his eyes telling the boys how broken he was to hear that such treatment could occur. He then called up the one boy that kept telling the boys to stop the bullying and he gave him an award in front of the whole school. The menahel explained that it's just as bad to stand and watch silently as doing the abuse itself.
All three boys that did the beatings, had to write heartfelt letters to my DH and I for causing us so much pain seeing our son be bullied. They asked for mechila and gave sincere apologies. From that day on my DS never had a bullying issue again .
I think lots of schools began taking bullying very seriously.
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amother
Khaki


 

Post Sun, Nov 25 2018, 10:53 pm
OP, I think the answer to your question is that the term "abuse" is used when the situation involves someone who to an extent is trapped in the bad situation. A parent/child, a teacher/student, or a boss/employee. If I'm walking in the street and a random person calls me names or hits me, that is certainly bad behavior and might have legal consequences, but for whatever reason we don't use the term abuse.
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giselle




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Nov 25 2018, 10:54 pm
thunderstorm wrote:
My son was tied down to the legs of the seat on the school bus , with his scarf while boys stomped on his head and stomache. The school took it VERY seriously as soon as the principal found out. An emergency assembly was called and the menahel stood up and cried with tears in his eyes telling the boys how broken he was to hear that such treatment could occur. He then called up the one boy that kept telling the boys to stop the bullying and he gave him an award in front of the whole school. The menahel explained that it's just as bad to stand and watch silently as doing the abuse itself.
All three boys that did the beatings, had to write heartfelt letters to my DH and I for causing us so much pain seeing our son be bullied. They asked for mechila and gave sincere apologies. From that day on my DS never had a bullying issue again .
I think lots of schools began taking bullying very seriously.


That is horrific. I hope the boys were disciplined more harshly than just having to write you a letter.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 26 2018, 1:48 am
Yes, bullying is a form of abuse.
I'm so sorry for your experiences, OP Crying
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Harried mama




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 26 2018, 1:54 am
thunderstorm wrote:
My son was tied down to the legs of the seat on the school bus , with his scarf while boys stomped on his head and stomache. The school took it VERY seriously as soon as the principal found out. An emergency assembly was called and the menahel stood up and cried with tears in his eyes telling the boys how broken he was to hear that such treatment could occur. He then called up the one boy that kept telling the boys to stop the bullying and he gave him an award in front of the whole school. The menahel explained that it's just as bad to stand and watch silently as doing the abuse itself.
All three boys that did the beatings, had to write heartfelt letters to my DH and I for causing us so much pain seeing our son be bullied. They asked for mechila and gave sincere apologies. From that day on my DS never had a bullying issue again .
I think lots of schools began taking bullying very seriously.


This brought tears to my eyes. It sounds like you've been blessed with a menahel who knows how to get a message across.
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 26 2018, 3:08 am
giselle wrote:
That is horrific. I hope the boys were disciplined more harshly than just having to write you a letter.
they were suspended from school as well
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 26 2018, 3:26 am
Bullying such as what OP described ( shock ) consists of very extreme physical violence. Perpetrators should be suspended or expelled.

Some bully is probably emotional or psychological abuse.

And some of the milder cases of what is defined as "bullying" these days is probably just kids being mean.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Mon, Nov 26 2018, 6:01 am
Bullying is abuse and should be treated as such. There are many kids and teens who committed suicide because they couldn't take it anymore.
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Mon, Nov 26 2018, 6:15 am
thunderstorm wrote:
My son was tied down to the legs of the seat on the school bus , with his scarf while boys stomped on his head and stomache. The school took it VERY seriously as soon as the principal found out. An emergency assembly was called and the menahel stood up and cried with tears in his eyes telling the boys how broken he was to hear that such treatment could occur. He then called up the one boy that kept telling the boys to stop the bullying and he gave him an award in front of the whole school. The menahel explained that it's just as bad to stand and watch silently as doing the abuse itself.
All three boys that did the beatings, had to write heartfelt letters to my DH and I for causing us so much pain seeing our son be bullied. They asked for mechila and gave sincere apologies. From that day on my DS never had a bullying issue again .
I think lots of schools began taking bullying very seriously.


Well my son had similar experiences to wat u described above BUT the principal didnt take this seriously. Other parents in other schools have said the same. Im glad to see there is one principal who does really care.
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Mon, Nov 26 2018, 6:19 am
amother wrote:
Bullying is abuse and should be treated as such. There are many kids and teens who committed suicide because they couldn't take it anymore.


This is my point and we dont hear on the news that kids were arrested for doing physical abuse aka bullying to another kid. Instead, we hear ppl saying "they are juust kids and " he did it bec he has a problem" or just "tell the teacher"(but then nothing is done bec wen teachers tell administrators most do nothing). I think there should be laws about it just like s-xual abuse laws.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Mon, Nov 26 2018, 6:41 am
amother wrote:
This is my point and we dont hear on the news that kids were arrested for doing physical abuse aka bullying to another kid. Instead, we hear ppl saying "they are juust kids and " he did it bec he has a problem" or just "tell the teacher"(but then nothing is done bec wen teachers tell administrators most do nothing). I think there should be laws about it just like s-xual abuse laws.


Yes there are laws regarding assault. There are also laws about criminal charges and children.

OP - did you call the police regarding what happened to your son?
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nicole81




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 26 2018, 6:51 am
Bullying is most definitely abuse. My working definition of bullying refers to repeated attempts to control or manipulate someone. In a marriage, that would be referred to as abuse.
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Aylat




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 26 2018, 7:15 am
Because our job as adults is to be mechanech kids and teach them how to behave like menschen. Punishment may be a part of chinuch but it is only a part. IMO only in a very extreme situation (say, knives or drugs) is the appropriate chinuch reaction to call the police. (I'm talking elementary and middle school age - is that the age of kids involved here OP and thunderstorm?) Obviously the bullies' victims must be protected, every child has a basic right to feel safe in their environment. But that should be accomplished without police.
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SYA




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 26 2018, 8:35 am
Some states, I think NY as well, have an anti bullying law. Bullying should be reported to the teacher. If nothing is done, then to the principal. If nothing is done then to the school superintendent... the school district...

If a school doesn’t take care of the issue and stop it they are held liable.

Sometimes a school doesn’t do anything cause the child comes from an “important” family - wealthy, board, community leaders child.
In these cases, the police can speak to the parents and bully. Sometimes, that is the only thing that will deter such a child.
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amother
Lime


 

Post Mon, Nov 26 2018, 8:51 am
About 12 years ago, when my dd was in elementary school, she was regularly roughed up by a boy on the bus (they were about 8 or 9 years old then). The school, although mainstream yeshivish, had mixed busing at the time.
After he punched her in the face, left a large bruise, and broke her glasses, I called the principal, who hemmed and hawed. The bully was a very difficult kid who he had a hard time controlling in school as well. Difficult to expel, because the school was the only game in town.
So I said the followning: RAbbi Principal, inform Mr. and Mrs. Parents of bully that the next time their son lays a hand on my dd I will not call you. I will call the cops. And I will give them your home address, and your child will be charged with assault.
He passed on the message. The boy never went near my dd again.

Very nice postscript to this story: The boy grew up, went away to yeshiva. A couple years ago he came to my home and asked for mechila. WHich we gave wholeheartedly.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 26 2018, 9:17 am
amother wrote:
About 12 years ago, when my dd was in elementary school, she was regularly roughed up by a boy on the bus (they were about 8 or 9 years old then). The school, although mainstream yeshivish, had mixed busing at the time.
After he punched her in the face, left a large bruise, and broke her glasses, I called the principal, who hemmed and hawed. The bully was a very difficult kid who he had a hard time controlling in school as well. Difficult to expel, because the school was the only game in town.
So I said the followning: RAbbi Principal, inform Mr. and Mrs. Parents of bully that the next time their son lays a hand on my dd I will not call you. I will call the cops. And I will give them your home address, and your child will be charged with assault.
He passed on the message. The boy never went near my dd again.

Very nice postscript to this story: The boy grew up, went away to yeshiva. A couple years ago he came to my home and asked for mechila. WHich we gave wholeheartedly.


So nice that he apologized in the end.

I actually used the same approach as well. There was a boy in the neighborhood who would use every opportunity to bully my daughter. I felt that it was unfair that my 10 year old should not be able to play outside for fear of being beaten up by a kid twice her size, for no reason whatsoever. The parents did nothing. One day I had it (!) and I told the kid, if someone off the street would hurt my child I would call the cops. And the same goes to you - if you ever lay a hand on my child again, or I hear a smidgen of the same, I will call the cops and let them sort it out.

He never went near her again.

Sometimes you just have to do what it takes.
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 26 2018, 9:19 am
When my sister was hit on the school bus the school made a bus monitor be present.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Nov 26 2018, 9:20 am
BTW one of my nieces was bullied on the school bus, by a rich kid whose parents built the building. Didn't matter. The school suspended her from school bus privileges for a week - the parents had to transport her by themselves. Guess the inconvenience of that happening got them to address the issue, because that kid stopped bothering my niece.

One thing I LOVE about the school my kids attended - Bais Faiga - is that the kids only ride the bus with kids in their age group. It's big enough - and that's a perk here - that there are no 8th graders riding with 1st graders, etc...I find that there's far less bus bullying with this setup.
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