Child confused as to his identity

mfb

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 11:26 am

fmt4 wrote:

Wow. The ignorance show here is really amazing. None of you know what gender dysphoria actually is. It’s not kids who like dresses or trucks. It’s when kids are experiencing incredible pain, confusion, and frustration because they have a deep feeling of disconnect to their gender. These kids may threaten to cut off or maim their private parts, they may refuse to wear the clothing of their gender and scream and cry if forced. They may insist on being called the opposite gender. These are usually children in a lot of distress. There are plenty of stories out there of parents in religious/ conservative communities who had children who experienced real gender dysphoria and had to make heart wrenching decisions that went against their own beliefs in order to save their child’s mental health. You denigrate their pain by comparing it to your silly nothing stories.

How many of those went through proper therapy to find out what is causing it? If they were abused...?

I recently read an article that pple said how much they regretted the change they made a few years later.
There may be a Zelcer few that have this issue but since it’s in style lots more are doing it for the wrong reasons!

urban gypsy

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 11:28 am

fmt4 wrote:

I don't think anyone in the thread actually said that playing with "opposite gender" toys or clothing is the same as gender dysphoria. On the contrary, everyone is advising OP NOT to overreact and that it is NOT necessary to pursue therapy of this kind. (except Miri7 but I think she is referring to the concurrent emotional problems and family issues, not just the behaviours)

dankbar

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 11:31 am

The point was that in the outside world when little kids would show interest in toys that supposedly belongs to one gender, or dress up with clothes of opposite gender...they would be taken to therapy & questioned & put ideas into their head. Most of these activities are normal when they are young & they outgrow it.
Being obsessed or hating private parts can be signs of abuse before & not telling

InnerMe

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 12:09 pm

fmt4 wrote:

Fmt4, I appreciate your thoughts and opinions. I think if you'd say it more respectfully it would help get your message across.

amother

Olive

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 1:06 pm

dankbar wrote:

I don't think any parents - secular or religious - who are informed on normal childhood development assume a child is transgender if they don't fit in with the genre stereotypes when young. No one aside from the most ignorant or repressed would be attempting to shame a young child into refraining from play. That has gone by the same wayside as punishing a left handed child for using that hand.

But I think that Frum lifestyles as people mature are much more rigid in terms of genre roles than the secular world. I actually have a few friends whose children have undergone gender change surgery and aside from normal concerns for the ordeal of surgery, they fully accept their choices. The children are married - the girl who became male is married to a woman - no agonizing about anything and happy that their children are happy in stable relationships.

nchr

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 1:08 pm

simba wrote:

My 4 yr old (BH not an the spectrum) loves dolls and pretty clothes. He wants to wear makeup and be a Kalla.. I don’t mind and let him play. Yes, he also likes monster trucks and guns!
He likes pretty things and that’s all. No big deal. In the secular world he would be seeing therapy for gender dysmorphia and asked whether he feels like a boy or girl etc..

No, he would not be in therapy. Actual gender dysphoria is way more complex than a 3 year old in a dress and makeup.

urban gypsy

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 1:22 pm

amother wrote:

But I think that Frum lifestyles as people mature are much more rigid in terms of genre roles than the secular world. I actually have a few friends whose children have undergone gender change surgery and aside from normal concerns for the ordeal of surgery, they fully accept their choices. The children are married - the girl who became male is married to a woman - no agonizing about anything and happy that their children are happy in stable relationships.

Wow. I can't believe that you know several people like this! I'm assuming that your friends who have experienced this are frum- in what context did they voluntarily reveal this information to you? How does that work in the area of shidduchim? Do their spouses know that they have undergone gender change surgery?

amother

Olive

Fri, Nov 30 2018, 1:35 pm

urban gypsy wrote:

The parents are not Frum. One is a close friend and the two others are acquaintances - I.e. friends of friends that I have met casually at social gatherings.

I don't think people casually reveal their gender identity to people or that of their children. However, it's going to be something that is obvious if you knew the family before the change so I was told in a matter of fact way in the same way one might mention that a child has married or become a doctor or has moved to France.

Since they are secular, there is no issue of shiddichum and I am not privy to how the children told their spouses or significant others.

My point is that this kind of casual acceptance would be unthinkable in Frum society just as acceptance of gay marriages by many people in secular society is accepted. The incidence of homosexuality among all societies from what I have read is fairly constant and I believe it is about 10% in terms of those who identify completely with it although s*exuality is on a continuum according to most researchers. There is no reason to believe that there is a lower rate of homosexuality among Frum people - probably just either more miserable people like those poor souls who were closeted and led sham lives in the secular world until the past 20 years or those who are OTD because living a life denying one's s*exual identity is unlivable. I would doubt there is a lower rate of true gender dysmorphia among Frum either because people are people.

ETA - I do know secular women who prefer females doctors, masseuses or waxers but I have never heard any of them seriously worry whether someone performing those services who presents as a woman once had male genitals or even what the status of their genitals is.

amother

Aqua

Mon, Dec 03 2018, 9:05 am

op here. Thank you for all your posts. One important point I did not make clear is that it is the school head who told us that my grandson wants to be a girl. The head also that that we shouldn't worry just yet but we need to take it seriously because by next year the pupils in his class might start making fun of him(bully him) if he continues behaving in a way indicating that he wants to be a girl.

studying_torah

Mon, Dec 03 2018, 9:34 am

Fmt, no one is saying playing dress up equals gender dysphoria.
We are saying it's not easy to know right now, because his desires might stem from something else.
He might want to be like mommy , because that's who he knows, who loves & cares for him.
Dad left, brother is a bully- he might associate his troubles w males.
He might just like the pretty sparkly stuff mom wears.
He might truly have gender identity issues but without more information & therapy for the family dynamics & good male father figures- we cannot say right now.