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Do parents legally need to help pay for college?
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 01 2018, 12:03 pm
Well then, fail Germany. I have no idea how frum people do there, if that's true.
I wouldn't want to give my income. I wouldn't want to support full families. Well, I couldn't even if I wanted.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Sat, Dec 01 2018, 3:12 pm
Ruchel wrote:
Well then, fail Germany. I have no idea how frum people do there, if that's true.
I wouldn't want to give my income. I wouldn't want to support full families. Well, I couldn't even if I wanted.


Life in Germany is cheap. You can have 10 kids here and trust me an American fans with 2 kids is spending more. Even though we're planning on moving to Canada , I will send my kids to Germany for university. The education is great and tuition is cheap compared to US or Israel.
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studying_torah




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 01 2018, 6:15 pm
No these were not about divorced couples. Just regular parents and kids going to college.
I just don't get it. We bh have a decent sized family and my older kids will be out of school in a few years. We will not be able to pay for college. And although we might have a "good income" in the general world; it is very different in the frum world where we barely make ends meet.
So my child can't get student loans, but we also can't afford to pay and then they can't go to college?
Also I'm not sure what counts as a private vs public college?
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amother
Azure


 

Post Sat, Dec 01 2018, 6:19 pm
studying_torah wrote:
No these were not about divorced couples. Just regular parents and kids going to college.
I just don't get it. We bh have a decent sized family and my older kids will be out of school in a few years. We will not be able to pay for college. And although we might have a "good income" in the general world; it is very different in the frum world where we barely make ends meet.
So my child can't get student loans, but we also can't afford to pay and then they can't go to college?
Also I'm not sure what counts as a private vs public college?

Why wouldn't they be able to get student loans? Criteria is very relaxed.
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amother
Plum


 

Post Sat, Dec 01 2018, 6:21 pm
College itself is optional, so how could there be a legal obligation for a parent to pay if there isn’t even a legal obligation to go?
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studying_torah




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 01 2018, 7:27 pm
Because if a parent earns too high an income to qualify for loans, but in reality as a large frum family they don't earn enough to pay.
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nylon




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 01 2018, 11:22 pm
amother wrote:
I never understood this. Why use parents income; not every parent wants to pay for their kids tuition.

To save financial aid for kids who don't have parents who can pay.

if you want to get rid of parental responsibility you have to have low tuition. Or what would happen is, parents would say they don't want to pay because they could (either cutting the kids of or slipping them money under the table). 18 year olds don't have the money.
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amother
Mauve


 

Post Sat, Dec 01 2018, 11:25 pm
nylon wrote:
To save financial aid for kids who don't have parents who can pay.

if you want to get rid of parental responsibility you have to have low tuition. Or what would happen is, parents would say they don't want to pay because they could (either cutting the kids of or slipping them money under the table). 18 year olds don't have the money.
not every wealthy parent gives money freely to their kids or pays for their kids college tuition or should have to. You're 18, you're an adult.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Dec 01 2018, 11:52 pm
When I was in community college I met a lot of 27 year olds who had waited until they were old enough to qualify on their own, as their parents were too high income to qualify, and would not pay. This was community college, which cost a grand total of I think $5000 a year, full time. These people were really angry at the system that didn't allow them to qualify on their own. And it doesn't sound as if the parents had made it a priority to save for the children's college education either... this is a real issue.
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studying_torah




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 02 2018, 1:09 am
Idk if it's not a priority to save for college; it's more of an impossibility.
There is tuition, simchos, shabbosim, yom tov, housing, kosher food, tznius clothing, insurance, etc etc for multiple children. Sometimes there are special needs for kids that require even more money (special education or therapies or meds or combination.)
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studying_torah




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 02 2018, 1:10 am
Idk if it's not a priority to save for college; it's more of an impossibility.
There is tuition, simchos, shabbosim, yom tov, housing, kosher food, tznius clothing, insurance, etc etc for multiple children. Sometimes there are special needs for kids that require even more money (special education or therapies or meds or combination.)
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amother
Oak


 

Post Sun, Dec 02 2018, 2:39 am
Quote:
However the older the person gets the less they look into the parents income. Like by 27 they will start to look less and so on...
This is not accurate, at least in the U.S.

The US Department of Education considers a student independent if they can answer yes to one of the questions, including being 24 or over, being married, having dependents.

(There's a mistake on the page, though.
Did you answer “Yes” to any of the questions?
If so, then for federal student aid purposes, you’re considered to be an independent student and don’t have to provide information about your parents on the FAFSA form.

Did you answer “ No” to any of the questions?
THIS SHOULD SAY TO ALL OF THE QUESTIONS, AS ONE YES IS ENOUGH!
If so, then for federal student aid purposes, you’re considered to be a dependent student, and you must provide information about your parents on the FAFSA form.

See this page.

If a student is independent, eligibility is based only on his or her (and spouse's) income and assets. If considered dependent, the formula considers the parents' income and assets. Based on all this they computer an Expected Family Contribution.

The school can award a package of grants and loans (as well as scholarships from the school) based on the student's Need, which is Cost of Education (tuition, room and board, books etc) minus the Expected Family Contribution.

This doesn't mean that the parents are forced to pay the Expected Family Contribution, just that it's considered a resource so the student can't get aid until that's taken into account.

(Anon because I know this through my work in a Yeshiva office, which you would know about if you know me!)
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 02 2018, 5:42 am
amother wrote:
Life in Germany is cheap. You can have 10 kids here and trust me an American fans with 2 kids is spending more. Even though we're planning on moving to Canada , I will send my kids to Germany for university. The education is great and tuition is cheap compared to US or Israel.


Yes there are many helps like here etc but still, with all the help I couldn't support new families. Plus, tuition.
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cm




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 02 2018, 7:57 am
studying_torah wrote:

Also I'm not sure what counts as a private vs public college?


In the US, public colleges are affiliated with and partly funded by the state government. Tuition is generally much lower for students who live in that state. Out-of-state students may attend, but will pay higher tuition. Examples of public universities that are very popular with Jewish students include University of Maryland, Binghamton University and Rutgers.

Private colleges are completely independent, and often charge high tuition. However, they may provide significant financial aid. Yeshiva University is in this category.

ETA: I just noticed you said you are in NJ. I have relatives in NJ whose kids got huge scholarships at Rutgers based on academic merit. Higher education may be more affordable than you think.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 02 2018, 8:22 am
According to Google, as of 2014, there are no fees for undergraduate public university in Germany.
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amother
Babyblue


 

Post Sun, Dec 02 2018, 8:26 am
imasinger wrote:
According to Google, as of 2014, there are no fees for undergraduate public university in Germany.


That's not true. Those fees still exist in southern Germany. It's 500-600 euros a month. But that's not the fees I was talking about. All the other universities are around 700 euros a year (which I mentioned above), which cover all the administrative stuff. The expensive part is not the tuition its the living expenses.
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Tiredwithjust2




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 03 2018, 8:50 pm
I know a frum person who was getting married after the college semester started so she got legally married like 2 months before in order to receive financial aid. Otherwise they were going to look at her parents income and she wouldn’t qualify even though the majority of the s school year she was going to be on her own.
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 03 2018, 9:04 pm
studying_torah wrote:
Because if a parent earns too high an income to qualify for loans, but in reality as a large frum family they don't earn enough to pay.


This isn't accurate because a college financial aid application takes into account family size and other significant financial obligations which would probably include a child with special needs.

I do think families with financial ability who refuse to help kids with tuition are really a minority. Most parents are normal and want to assist children to the best of their ability. If anything, many parents - Frum or religious - put the well being of their kids first even after the kids are 18 and no longer their legal responsibility. If a parent can't afford, they can't afford and many people really can't afford which is why community colleges are such a help to people. In California it is not uncommon for kids to go to community college for first two years and then transfer to one of the universities to save money. Kids will live at home and are able to more or less support themselves with a part time job that enables them to go to classes.

I think the dysfunctional sometimes is overstated - I can't think of any people whose parents refused to provide them with help to the best of the parents' ability. Obviously there are a few dysfunctional people but those are rare just as most people have normally dysfunctional families where family members have normally dysfunctional relationships but not to the extent that the families are a Gothic horror.
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amother
Rose


 

Post Mon, Dec 03 2018, 11:52 pm
My mother didn’t give me a penny for college. I lived at home and worked and got merit based scholarships and financial aid and loans and paid for everything myself. College funds were not a priority for her as a single mother.
It’s been 20 years so I don’t remember the specifics if her income was scrutinized but as a single income home, she probably made less than the threshold.
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