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Chanukah vacation vent
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amother
Orchid


 

Post Mon, Dec 03 2018, 7:58 pm
amother wrote:
My girls are off Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday. Way too much vacation in my opinion. B'h I am on maternity leave, but what on Earth do people do with their kids all week? And to add to that my boys are off half day Thursday through next Monday. So between girls and boys, basically entire Chanukah is vacation. How are parents supposed to work to pay tuition to these schools??


With all due respect I’m horrified every time I hear parents complain about having their kids home. Think of all the childless couples who’d give their right arms to trade places with you to hear the sound of kids in the house, even if it’s frustrating and difficult at times. People who don’t want to deal with their kids and expect Yeshiva’s to be their full time babysitters should’ve thought about this before they had kids. Don’t think the kids don’t feel what your feelings are and that their parents don’t want them home.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 03 2018, 8:02 pm
Debating whether to take that bait or not.
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amother
Pewter


 

Post Mon, Dec 03 2018, 8:03 pm
seeker wrote:
Give Friday off for everyone. It's the earliest Shabbos of the year, plus menorah, plus why not give the teachers a "long holiday weekend." Friday and Sunday are a lot easier to fargin than Thursday+Friday+Monday.
No need to dismiss early, halacha says lighting can wait until you get home, assuming it is still within normal waking hours. High schools that usually have later ending times can dismiss early, the kids are old enough to find their way home anyway. Anyone who is young enough that they would need to be transferred from school to another form of childcare should have a full day.
The late notes can be dealt with the same as any other day of the year.

We basically agree. Yes I know the halacha but there are those who are makpid to light at שקיעה. And those that light immediately at צאת.
But it is the parents who want their kids home early for Chanuka lecht.
Our students are from various areas, many travel for over an hour and only arrive home after 5:30 pm
As I said before, years and years ago this vacation schedule worked now it needs tweeking.
And no it’s not only for teachers.
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Mon, Dec 03 2018, 8:07 pm
amother wrote:
With all due respect I’m horrified every time I hear parents complain about having their kids home. Think of all the childless couples who’d give their right arms to trade places with you to hear the sound of kids in the house, even if it’s frustrating and difficult at times. People who don’t want to deal with their kids and expect Yeshiva’s to be their full time babysitters should’ve thought about this before they had kids. Don’t think the kids don’t feel what your feelings are and that their parents don’t want them home.


No reason to be horrified. All I want is for the school to be considerate to today's families. I enjoy spending time with my kids b"h, that is not the issue here at all.
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amother
Puce


 

Post Tue, Dec 04 2018, 12:16 am
amother wrote:
So honor those expectations and make those days to be fun classes. The kids get their fun time, their hyperactivity won't be much of an issue, and the parents can work and earn their weekly wage.

It's a win-win for two out of the three groups involved (the kids and parents). I fully admire the teachers for what they do, but a job is a job. They shouldn't be abandoning the job just because these days are tougher than others.


Teachers aren't abandoning their job. I just stayed up until ridiculously late planning exactly such a day. Because I believe in having school.
But honestly, I was hired to teach. That I what I am good at. When I give over a good chumash lesson (not on chanuka) the students are engaged and learning.
When I try to be their camp counselor and give them the chanuka they want, not so much. And we all end up frustrated. I don't think anyone ends up happy.

But I think that in todays world the expectation is that teachers are only partly teachers, and the rest of the time babysitters.
Its a frustrating fact for professional teachers to come to terms with but thats what it is.
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amother
Bisque


 

Post Tue, Dec 04 2018, 1:00 am
amother wrote:
But I think that in todays world the expectation is that teachers are only partly teachers, and the rest of the time babysitters.
Its a frustrating fact for professional teachers to come to terms with but thats what it is.

Very off-topic, but this is true.

In previous generations, kids were able to roam freely all day, accept responsibility at what we consider to day an absurdly young age, and were expected to more or less leave their parents alone until old enough to help.

Nowadays, life revolves around the child.

It can be completely suffocating to be expected to give your children constant focus, never be whatever flavor is today called neglectful, always provide 100% supervision all the time and everywhere, need to accompany kids everywhere because of that, etc.

A mother can no longer leave the kids in the car for 5 minutes while she runs in to pick up bananas.
She can't cook dinner while her kids play outside.
She can't let an 8-year-old babysit so she can take a walk.
She can't gloss over idiosyncrasies as "personality," all must be medicated or therapied away.
Nothing she does will be ever "enough".

This is leaving aside the financial obligations and expectations that are piling up.

So yes, one very big part of school is the fact that your child is under someone else's watch, society approves of where and why, and you will have a few hours kid-free (or kid-fewer).

Education is wonderful and vital, but the 8 hours a day or more are a function of a society that doesn't let parents breathe otherwise.

I think that if societal expectations eased up, parents would be more free to separate education from babysitting. Till then, I think teachers should treat their time with the children as an unexpected bonus - they'd have fewer hours otherwise, and now they have more freedom to explore and let the class pace themselves.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 04 2018, 2:58 am
here in israel, kids had school yesterday and are now off all of the rest of chanukah. Its sort of like winter break.
But how is this any different than winter break op? If you are working, you are working.
So, some of my daughter's friends have parents who take off all of chanukah (hotels in eilat are booked weeks and weeks before chanukah) and others, like myself and dh, who have to work, work around the vacation. What else is there to do? Thats life, school, vacation and then school and more vacation, and working parents just have to figure it out. I mean, school is not a babysitting service :/
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sim




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 04 2018, 4:39 am
I'm a teacher, and my school is giving vacation Thursday through Monday. I think it's excessive, but no one asked me.
It doesn't help me much, as I have another part time job because teaching doesn't pay the bills.
In any case, I went to teach yesterday and discovered that 12 out of my 33 students were out, because parents had either kept them home or picked them up early for various festivities.
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amother
Beige


 

Post Tue, Dec 04 2018, 5:22 am
Bisque, changing societal expectations won't help me much if I'm not home to supervise (or not) my child because I'm at work.

I mean, maybe we could change societal expectations about women working so that all women would be back at home to be around for their kids. But until then, when my daughters' school gives off 4 (!!) days for Chanukah (+ another 1.5 days for my sons that don't align with my daughters), it's not society that is causing the problem. It's my need to pay for a roof over my children's heads and food on their plates.

P.S. I think the ~8 hour schedule is more about the dual curriculum then the schools' favor in supervising children, but that is somewhat irrelevant.
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yo'ma




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 04 2018, 7:22 am
amother wrote:
My kids don't have any vacation for Chanuka and I'm super happy about that.

Neither do my elementary kids, but I don't think we count because the last day of school is the 14th Smile .

My ds who learns in the states that's frustrating because he's in a dorm and he has to go home, the dorm is closed and it's for such a short time to spend the money for the flight. And for us it's worse because it's not like he actually comes home. Bh he found a friend to stay over chanukah break, but it doesn't always happen. And like someone else said, winter break is very soon anyway. When I was in school, a dorm, we didn't go home chanukah break.
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amother
Green


 

Post Tue, Dec 04 2018, 12:54 pm
amother wrote:
Only anon because I talk about this in real life....

Its all to make the teachers happy. Seriously. I keep hearing how the teachers work so hard so... They need tips/ gifts (unethical in most helping professions), they need the Rosh Chodesh treats/catered lunches/donuts/muffins etc, they need those random days off, they need several days before chag and Issru chag....

My job is just as hard or even harder. No benefits like Chagim off, never Issru chag or erev chag, no special breakfast/lunches. Never any gifts or tips. But I am constantly asked to sponsor this or that for the teachers. Sorry but no. Tuition is high enough plus I have to pay for babysitters for those "mandatory days off".
My husband also has to work crazy hours. All to pay basic bills and no extras like pizza Thursdays, vacations, or coordinating clothes for my kids. Just to pay rent, tuition, food, utilities and other real needs. Somehow the teachers can do all that and they still *need* so much. Banging head


I do hear you, and my job also does not give days off for yum tov (I have to find someone and pay them to replace me on those days), but I used to be a school teacher, so I can share that most yeshivish schools seriously underpay their teachers (MO schools usually pay better), and even with all the days off, teachers work very hard and do deserve appreciation. It is not just the work hours at school. Then they get home, and still have to mark exams, talk to parents, prepare for next day's lesson. It is more involving and intensive than you may realize. Getting those days off is the one big bonus of being a teacher. I say they have earned it (And most of your hard-earned money, unfortunately, does not go directly to the teachers, but to the school's Hanhala. Sorry, but I have been there, and could have barely paid for the babysitter and for getting my sheitel done, so that I look like a 'mentch' when teaching the girls).
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 6:54 am
amother wrote:
I am a teacher and I believe that things need to change. More mothers are working today and at jobs that do not align with school vacations.
However you should know that it is very hard to teach on these days. The kids attitude is “why do we have to learn it’s chanuka?” And many are tired beyond exhaustion due staying up late. Perhaps just Friday should be a day off simply because shabbos is very early and chanuka lecht even earlier. And sunday for the boys.

My 4th grader wants to know why she has to learn math and science on chanuka....
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 6:58 am
amother wrote:
Would you like to see how many notes and phone calls we get asking for early dismissal because of Chanuka lecht bentching. Or the late notes? Or the absences for the long weekend?
So how about this? No vacation but rather later start and earlier finish. And Friday no school.
What do you think?

I hate late start and early finish! I work 9-3, and have such a hard time getting my kids to and from school in those days....cuz of course there’s no bus....
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rgr




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 7:19 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
here in israel, kids had school yesterday and are now off all of the rest of chanukah. Its sort of like winter break.
But how is this any different than winter break op? If you are working, you are working.
So, some of my daughter's friends have parents who take off all of chanukah (hotels in eilat are booked weeks and weeks before chanukah) and others, like myself and dh, who have to work, work around the vacation. What else is there to do? Thats life, school, vacation and then school and more vacation, and working parents just have to figure it out. I mean, school is not a babysitting service :/


Because this is not winter break, it's in addition to winter break. In another few weeks we'll have a thread asking why we need mid winter vacation.

Schools need to pick one or the other .
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 7:26 am
rgr wrote:
Because this is not winter break, it's in addition to winter break. In another few weeks we'll have a thread asking why we need mid winter vacation.

Schools need to pick one or the other .

That's what I was going to say. If Chanukah= winter break where you live, that's great. Kids and teachers definitely need a break. But the issue is when and how many.

Where I live, the public schools and modern Jewish schools have winter break starting at Xmas and going through New Year's. Xmas and New Year's are days when most businesses are closed anyway so parents are available to spend quality time with their kids for at least some of the time, and if they need to take off from work it will be fewer days. The more yeshivish schools won't do that because they want to be more separate from the non-Jewish holidays, but then they miss out on the convenience. They also miss out on uniformity - some of the schools will have "yeshiva week" which somehow became a thing, others will have President's day week or weekend (one day of moderate convenience), you could have three different winter breaks in one family. This is a uniquely frum problem and I don't think yeshivas can afford any extra problems.
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 7:55 am
seeker wrote:
That's what I was going to say. If Chanukah= winter break where you live, that's great. Kids and teachers definitely need a break. But the issue is when and how many.

Where I live, the public schools and modern Jewish schools have winter break starting at Xmas and going through New Year's. Xmas and New Year's are days when most businesses are closed anyway so parents are available to spend quality time with their kids for at least some of the time, and if they need to take off from work it will be fewer days. The more yeshivish schools won't do that because they want to be more separate from the non-Jewish holidays, but then they miss out on the convenience. They also miss out on uniformity - some of the schools will have "yeshiva week" which somehow became a thing, others will have President's day week or weekend (one day of moderate convenience), you could have three different winter breaks in one family. This is a uniquely frum problem and I don't think yeshivas can afford any extra problems.


My friend's son is in a non Jewish private school cuz he has special needs academically (very bright boy but issues with language based learning) and I think they had off the whole Presidents Week, while she was working. I dunno. He's off quite a bit, often at inconvenient times.

For Chanukah break, here's an idea: NO HOMEWORK. Regular school (maybe dismissal an hour early) but with no homework. That would be nice. And Friday off cuz people go away for Shabbos Chanukah. I think that is sufficient.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 7:58 am
Both of my current Jewish schools have no homework on Chanukah. It's a very helpful policy all around.
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keym




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 8:01 am
Personally I like the Lakewood system. Boys are off Fri and Sunday, with many having early dismissal on Thurs.
Girls off Fri and Mon.
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 05 2018, 8:03 am
gold21 wrote:
My friend's son is in a non Jewish private school cuz he has special needs academically (very bright boy but issues with language based learning) and I think they had off the whole Presidents Week, while she was working. I dunno. He's off quite a bit, often at inconvenient times.

For Chanukah break, here's an idea: NO HOMEWORK. Regular school (maybe dismissal an hour early) but with no homework. That would be nice. And Friday off cuz people go away for Shabbos Chanukah. I think that is sufficient.

My kids don’t have homework
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