What to say to a drunk at a kiddish?

amother

Smokey

Wed, Dec 12 2018, 2:02 pm

amother wrote:

Did you even read the thead? The kiddish is not by announcement. It is invitation only. I have said this numerous times.

I am not changing the way we socialize because of one uninvited drunk. How many times do I have to say this?

OP, you have also repeatedly stated that your husband likes having an open house, and that when uninvited guests -- including the drunkard under discussion here -- arrive, they are welcomed.

If this were really an invitation-only event, the answer is simple. Tell him that there must have been a mistake, his family wasn't invited this week, but good golly, you'll be sure to be in touch to invite them another week (perhaps in 2040). And you're sorry but your house is full-up, no room for more guests.

You're not responsible for him. You're not responsible for seeing him home or to shul or anywhere else. You don't have to do anything.

All of that said, people here are trying to sympathize with and help you. No need to attack them.

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, Dec 12 2018, 2:09 pm

Chayalle wrote:

No, that's not what I said.

I said a wife can place boundaries to protect herself. It is totally NOT a wife's job to modify (or a better word would be change) her husband.

You know what you sound like? Why can't all those people with issues that don't float my boat - mental illness, alcoholism, etc - go live on some island somewhere so that I don't have to deal with it? This is cramping my style! I wanna do whatever I want, and not deal with any unpleasant repercussions.

Sorry honey. Women aren't responsible for their menfolk. They don't have to (or get to) lock them up, they don't have to keep them out of your town, they don't have to take responsibility for them, and they don't have to try to change them (they are rarely successful when they do try). They can set boundaries under which they refuse to be near them, to try to evoke change and to protect themselves. That's about it.

The thinking on the thead is twisted honey. I should change what goes on in MY house because an uninvited guest has a problem with alchohol.

Somehow I am responsible but the wife isn't?

Somehow I, alone, can alter the community by not serving alcohol?

I should invite the wife and kids into my home of someone I don't want in my home in the first place?

I should throw an incapacitated human in the street like trash and not see to his safety?

I should lock up my liquor cabinets. Because why? Should I lock my refrigerators because they have beer?

I shouldn't keep my agreement with my husband.

Good grief.

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, Dec 12 2018, 2:18 pm

amother wrote:

I have been repeatedly attacked first. The ones attacking are clueless. They are assuming facts that are not true just like you are. You want me to tell lies. I am not compromising my integrity.

I am disgusted by how many people think it is ok to throw someone in the street intoxicated.

Chayalle

Wed, Dec 12 2018, 2:47 pm

amother wrote:

Nope. The thinking in this thread of a whole bunch of people is perfectly logical.

No one says you are responsible, until you serve alcohol to an alcoholic. At that moment you become an enabler. You don't have to alter the community, but you do need to be responsible and sensitive to the needs of an ill person. And you can't just dump it all on the wife.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Let's say the wife decides she has enough, and she separates from her alcoholic husband. What do you do with him then? Say he shows up in your neighborhood, rents a house or an apartment, and then continues to show up at your open Kiddush. What do you do then? Whose responsibility is he? Do you say she has no right to turn him out and he is her responsibility? Does she have to live with his bad choices for the rest of her life because why should you deal with it?

An adult who chooses to engage in damaging behavior is not his/her spouse's responsibility. Period.

And anyone who enables them is doing something damaging. Including you, who want to let him in, let him drink, and then turn him out. Yes, that's awful. Better not to let him in. But no, you are so kind and wonderful, you will let him in to drink, and then you have a self-created problem, that you then want to hold his wife responsible for.

Chayalle

Wed, Dec 12 2018, 2:48 pm

amother wrote:

I am disgusted that you think it's okay to feed alcohol to an alcoholic, and but you think his wife has do deal with the situation and is responsible for it.

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, Dec 12 2018, 3:12 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Your post is pure genius. He is my "self-created problem". I don't even know his name, but the handful of times he has been in my house, I was able to make him into an alcoholic.

If the guy lived nearby and had a home without his wife telling him that he can't come in, he could be taken to his home. He shouldn't be left on the street drunk. What is wrong with you people? Would you leave a lady on the street drunk, or is it only men who are left like trash?

It doesn't make a difference because you won't listen this time either, but I don't want to let him in. I don't invite him. I don't even open the door to the men's side and let him in.

According to you, his wife has zero responsibility for him. But I created the problem.

Chayalle

Wed, Dec 12 2018, 3:16 pm

amother wrote:

NO. I just wouldn't give a drink to someone for whom I know it is akin to poison.

Would you give my niece a peanut butter sandwich? She's allergic to peanuts.

And yes, a wife is not responsible for her husband. I will stick to that. She can set boundaries for him, she can leave him, etc...she is most likely powerless to do anything anyway. He is not her child.

amother

Lawngreen

Wed, Dec 12 2018, 3:17 pm

amother wrote:

Your twisting everyone's words to try to justify your position. A position which has garnished almost no support over the many pages.

Yes, the wife has no responsibility for his inappropriate behavior, and neither do you. He is in adult, and responsible for himself.

You didn't create the problem, you're enabling. There's very key difference between the two and no where did Chayalle say that you created it.

Last edited by amother on Wed, Dec 12 2018, 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Lawngreen

Wed, Dec 12 2018, 3:21 pm

amother wrote:

You seem not to be aware of one thing.

Sometimes the right thing to do is NOT the one that feels good.

When the action you take makes you feel good, but the victim feel very very bad, that's one clue right there that the action is not the right one.

If your actions enable someone to do the wrong thing, that's another clue right there that something is not right with what you are doing.

amother

Lawngreen

Wed, Dec 12 2018, 3:33 pm

amother wrote:

I am done with this thead. I am done being attacked. The guy is now welcome here, and I will give him a nice big to go cup when he departs.

I am only sorry that I made this an issue with DH. DH is right about this site - a bunch of yenta know it alls.

Do you know what they say when you're driving down a highway & everyone else seems to be going in the opposite direction.........?

Chayalle

Wed, Dec 12 2018, 4:07 pm

amother wrote:

Do you know what they say when you're driving down a highway & everyone else seems to be going in the opposite direction.........?

You know, I was thinking the same thing.....

the only thing I can think of is, maybe the OP in this thread is really the wife of the guy who is drinking, and she wants to spread awareness, so people will think twice before allowing guys like her DH to drink themselves sick and then come home to their families that way.

I'm actually surprised at myself for being such a passionate voice for someone like her on this thread, and I'm trying to figure out where it's coming from. I'm lucky enough that B"H drinking has never been an issue in my life - the closest I ever came to that was when one of my nephews once went a little too far on Purim in my home, and he has been so mortified, he never tried that again.

However, I grew up with our family being friends with another family, and I always knew, somehow, that there was something tough that family was dealing with, but I never knew what it was (maybe I could've posted this in the embarrassing thread, as I was clueless for far too long. It never dawned on me, and I never knew to realize it.) It's only as an adult that I was made aware (by another friend) that the father had a very big drinking problem, and the wife, who is, IMVHO, an absolute tzadeikes, really suffered over the years, as did the whole family, really.....

In no way do I think she was responsible for his problem, ever.

Cheiny

Wed, Dec 12 2018, 7:04 pm

amother wrote:

I love hosting. What do you say to the neighborhood alcoholics who inevitably show up uninvited?

There is one guy who visits his in-laws often. I don't want him in my house as his gets drunk and makes scenes. He threw up in my friend's house. He gobbled food 2 fisted in my house. Shoved the food in his mouth and then with his spit on his hands took more food and the food he ate went back into the plate. He leaves my house stumbling drunk. He has never been invited here, yet has shown up half a dozen times. He says his wife doesn't want him at her parents' house drunk. Why does she send him off to other people's houses? I don't want him either.

Another drunk gets all sad and melancholy when he drinks. I heard he has gotten aggressive in other people's houses. He just cries in mine.

I am close friends with the wife of another drunk. Her husband just keeps drinking and drinking and then monopolizes the table telling stories that are hard to understand. I feel bad about not inviting them as I love her very much, but it isn't fair to my other guests.

How do I keep a house that people enjoy coming to and eliminate the drunks? I invite my friend and her family to socialize without other company because of her husband. But he showed up shabbos.

Help

I would absolutely not allow such behavior in my home! You tell them straight out you have a rule about it and stick to it! Tell them they’re welcome in as long as they haven’t been over drinking and can behave appropriately.