S/o shiva calls | Imamother

amother

Blush

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 9:57 am

keym wrote:

I appreciated the rules in that I had no idea what to do or how to breathe in the initial pain, so I appreciated that I was dictated what to do.
I appreciated that all my fathers siblings came so we were able to spend the whole week together.

I didn't appreciate the show, spectacle, and eventual hurt feelings that happens when many grieving people are stuck together.
And the stupid comments....

YES. Exactly.

imasoftov

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 11:10 am

amother wrote:

Can you please explain your ETA? Are you saying that it was or wasn't instituted for the purpose of being therapeutic?

Neither, I'm taking no position on the subject (just like on the other claim that it was instituted for the benefit of the niftar) but I would like people to post sources one way or another. Note that an unsourced opinion in either direction such as "yes it is" or "no it isn't" isn't what I'm looking for, nor are personal experiences, positive or negative.

What also won't answer my questions are sources that say it is theraputic or to the benefit of the niftar but don't say that's the reason for shivah.

amother

Denim

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 11:23 am

keym wrote:

I also appreciated the rules, for the whole 11 months. Was something appropriate for me to do? I had guidance.

I found shiva very helpful. It was a demarcation. I didn't have to face the world. I just had to "be."

I sat the first half, until Shabbat, at my parents' home, with my father and brother, and the second half in my own home, alone. We didn't have a huge number of visitors at either place, but all were appreciated.

BTW, hint to do a nice thing for aveilim. Most shuls have low armchairs for use by aveilim. Make sure that your friends get those. The first few days, we sat on cardboard boxes provided by the funeral home. This was not a good thing. BH for the wonderful person who took one look at the box, turned around, and came back with a chair.

amother

Blush

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 11:33 am

amother wrote:

BTW, hint to do a nice thing for aveilim. Most shuls have low armchairs for use by aveilim. Make sure that your friends get those. The first few days, we sat on cardboard boxes provided by the funeral home. This was not a good thing. BH for the wonderful person who took one look at the box, turned around, and came back with a chair.

See, to me doing something like that is way more helpful and meaningful than having someone I don't know well come to visit me in a time of deepest pain. There are loads of things that could be helpful to an avel, other than classic shiva visits, and doing those things is just another way to show you are with them.

PinkFridge

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 3:53 pm

amother wrote:

I didn't sit shiva for my preemie. she was alive for 3 months, we asked a sheila and at that time was happy with the psak that the baby never came home from the hospital and wasn't breathing on its own so we shouldn't. Later on we heard from other rabbonim that we should have but it was too late. 10 years past and it still bothers me. Somehow I feel that ppl. think I had a miss or stillborn. They cant understand why I would tell my children about her. I feel uncomfortable when my kids mention her to others, I feel judged. I feel like I didn't have a chance to mourn properly. If I would've sat shiva they would know she was a person, viable. I lost my daughter it wasn't a pregnancy gone wrong.

I think it would be totally appropriate to get some outside input to help you process this and get...closure may not be the right word, but to a place of inner peace.
BUT, and this is going to sound contradictory, but I really believe this, don't beat yourself up over decisions you made. I'm guessing you did it with input from people you trusted, and under time pressure. And it really did make sense at the time. Try to let go of that resentment, or get help to do so. Treat them as two different things: you may not have made the decisions you wished you would have but those decisions are made. Now, these years later, you want some help processing it all. Hatzlacha!

amother

Seashell

Tue, Jan 08 2019, 4:50 pm

imasoftov wrote:

Got it, thanks for explaining. It always irks me when people give reasons like this. My other pet peeve is that keeping hilchos nidah is supposed to rejuvenate marriage. That might be a happy side effect for some people, but since when do we keep halacha because we like the reasons?

amother

Babypink

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 12:58 am

Simple1 wrote:

I think it probably depends on if you're an introvert or extrovert.

I am a real introvert but I found shiva very therapeutic. A number of years later I still take strength from recalling those who came supported me. Hugs to all those who found shiva difficult.

amother

Peach

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 2:59 am

I had always thought sitting shiva would be terrible - until I sat, and discovered what a supportive and brilliant idea it is. Hard, but way better than having to go back to "normal life" the day after the levaya. I can't begin to imagine how difficult it must be for people who have to go back to work the day after burying a loved one, with no chance to have their loss processed.

amother

Tan

Wed, Jan 09 2019, 4:27 am

amother wrote:

Its really tough . I lost a baby at a couple of weeks old (but even had it been past a month would have likely not sat shiva because of his medical condition)
I was relieved when I heard from a Rav that there would be likely no shiva even after a month. I didn’t want to put my kids through it having sat shiva for my parent when I was relatively young.
At the same time, I sought different ways to achieve closure for myself that shiva and all the laws of aveilus can give.
Unlike my stillborn, I have photos of him, a name that we refer to around the kids, so it feels different to that.
It might be worth exploring ways for yourself.

amother

Blue

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 12:57 am

When we sat shiva for my father it was so sudden that there was no way we could have gone on with life without shiva.
Having gone through other very hard, but less public, challenges in my life, I actually marveled at the beauty of everyone coming to share in the pain. There was nothing to hide.
There were some tactless and painful comments, yes, but mostly there were so many who cared and expressed their caring with such thoughtful gestures.
Shiva also brought our family so close together. It was sad that I became so much closer to my father's siblings - and my brothers - over this.
Being together for such a long time helped us draw strength from one another and influenced the entire mourning period.

amother

Peach

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 2:50 am

amother wrote:

I'm so sorry for your loss and lack of closure. I have a friend who felt like you (although the details were different, it was an older family member). What she did, many years later, was to make a small memorial event where she talked about the niftar. Could you perhaps do something similar? A shiur dedicated to your daughter(zl) where you talk about her? (And get some closure?)

I wish you nechama.

amother

Jade

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 5:33 pm

I’m not so sure shiva was designed for the niftar. It’s halvayas hameis, but Nichum Aveilim. IOW the levayah is for the meis , though the aveilim might feel better if many people show up, and the post-levayah visits are dafka for the purpose of consoling the aveilim. The meisim presumably derive some comfort when people say nice things about them, that’s the purpose of hespedim after all, but the shiva is first and foremost for the aveilim. I don’t know why anyone would think otherwise.

zaq

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 5:41 pm

I found shiva alternately stressful and comforting. Comforting when people told me nice things I never knew about the departed, stressful when there was a room full of people I barely knew, didn’t know at all, or didn’t like. VERY stressful when the socially clueless, trying to khap stein a mitzvah, walked in at 8.55 pm (we listed hours 7am to 9 pm) and stayed till midnight. To call it “therapeutic” would be majorly overstating the case. A necessary transition, yes; therapeutic, no.

4pom

Tue, Feb 26 2019, 8:10 pm

Like Zaq, I also found shiva alternately comforting and stressful.
With my mother it was a shock and I was jetlagged and exhausted in so many ways. I deeply appreciated those who came and still recall some of those moments with warmth and appreciation. Because of my exhaustion and shock and I had a baby I also had no problem excusing myself and reclusing myslef. I felt the halachos of shiva -that I didnt have to worry about food or drink and others were arranging it- or about how I looked- was beautiful and comforting and appropriate.
With my father I remember finding a particular relative very challenging- she had flown in to be menachem avel. ANd I simply left the room and left her with my siblings.

May all be misnachem min hashamayim and comforted amongst the mourners of Zion VeYerushalayim!

amother

Chocolate

Wed, Feb 27 2019, 7:14 am

I was relieved that I did not have to sit shiva for my baby that lived for a short time. I could not have faced anyone at that time. However, a number of years later, when it was time to sit shiva for my father, while there were a few clueless/rude people who came to socialize rather than to be Menachem avel, for the most part, it was heartwarming to see so many people make the effort to come out, make minyanim, etc. Before I sat shiva, I felt that the avelim were “on display” and was very uncomfortable with the idea. Now I see, how, if done properly, it can really bring nechama to the aveilim.