ElAl sale, I'm so torn - miss school/work?

amother

Mauve

Wed, Jan 16 2019, 11:48 am

nchr wrote:

I disagree. The majority of illnesses that cause fever are contagious prior to the fever, and children get fever for things adults would not (I.e. colds). A cold is not a reason to stay home and no teacher has ever complained about my children's behavior and they seem pretty normal when they have fever. I give them tylenol in school and they are just like an adult with a cold, who should not miss work or school. My pediatrician agrees with this. I have a live in so its not about not having someone to watch them, but rather a message I want to send my children about taking things easy, having a good work ethic, etc.

They're contagious before, but far less likely to spread it before they're actively coughing, sneezing, and drippy nose. Also, there's a difference between knowing your child is contagious and spreading a virus around vs not knowing. I'm surprised the school doesn't have a policy in place and is totally fine with kids having fever in school. Also surprised a pediatrician advocates for this. Staying home when you're sick is not called taking it easy, it's called taking care of your health. It's much harder for the body to recover with the stresses of a school day than while resting at home and getting lots of fluids.

ShishKabob

Wed, Jan 16 2019, 12:28 pm

amother wrote:

So I'll take part in the bashing, since you know its coming anyways.

I find this attitude among many principals. To them, school is life. On the priority list, it comes first. Everything and anything should be arranged around the school, first and foremost. Hence, the above attitude, the inconvenient scheduling of school events, kids performances and the many days off.

To me, school shouldn't be the life of the kid, it should be teaching the kids how to live the life. There are lots of things outside of school, and some may be of higher priority than the school. Teaching kids how we juggle such situations is a great skill for them to possess. And teaching kids how to analyze and prioritize situations in life, is another great skill for them to learn.

That last statement is mind-boggling. First, I find that the administration of most schools display that very attitude. Consideration for parents is hardly considered, it's only consideration for themselves. I can't read your thoughts or minds, but the actions of many school administrations are highly suggestive of it. Secondly, teaching the kids to prioritize family is anything but selfish. Demanding that parents consider the impact on the school over the benefit of the children does more than hint at self-centered behavior.

And as for talking behind parent's back, treating children differently based on their parent's decision - I have no words. Please find a different job.

This! word for word

Simple1

Wed, Jan 16 2019, 12:34 pm

trixx wrote:

I can't believe these responses. School, as much as we pay for it, is really not important especially in the younger grades. I say that as a mother, teacher and school admin, and under my own username. Kids would be far better off playing outside all day than sitting in the classroom. There are entire bodies of research that support this which is why unschooling and homeschooling and other free play methods have become the rage. Your kids will learn far more about anything important by taking a trip abroad, esperiencing different culture, spending time with family, sightseeing Israel etc than they ever could in school. I wouldn't even have a second thought about this (except for taking off as a teacher which no I wouldn't do that much time). Someone mentioned prioritizing - in my opinion school is not a priority. This is not to say that you shouldn't value the teachers and schoolwork and impress upon your children to do the same. It's not to say that you shouldn't let the teachers know far in advance and make whatever arrangements they want. But educationally they will gain far more from going.

This can also be used as a good argument in the Yeshiva education thread.

amother

Ginger

Wed, Jan 16 2019, 12:39 pm

amother wrote:

I'm OP and I appreciate the school amother's perspective. Thank you for sharing. Teachers are human, they're not horrible people if they get irritated by irritating things. The truth isn't always what everyone wants to hear.

I may end up doing it if it's worth it to me overall but I appreciate hearing this perspective.

Not done reading even the first page of this thread, but I had to stop and say that this is my favorite post ever on this cite. It's mature! It's accepting of a different opinion!! It's respectful!! It acknowledges that people have different priorities and choices without automatically assuming the worst intentions possible!! Look, no insults! No judgements!! There hasn't been a lot of this awesome attitude recently...

/end mini-rant

icedcoffee

Wed, Jan 16 2019, 12:53 pm

Quote:

Shouldn't the previous grade's teacher have informed you of this? Don't teachers discuss each specific student prior to the commencement of the school year?

Nope, I teach 9th grade. I have no idea who they are. They're coming from different middle schools all over the city. Not to mention, every week we have both grade-level meetings and department-level meetings. At these meetings, we discuss what's going on in our classrooms, what's going on in the whole school, and what we want to focus on for the upcoming week. Many schools are becoming increasingly data-driven. So we'll come up with something to try (ex. a new method for doing analysis, writing, or organizing). My assistant principal will say something like "next week in your classes I want you to all try/emphasize/practice xyz and we'll discuss how it went." Many, many, many schools do this. A teacher simply cannot plan every day of the year before the year has started because we adjust things all the time. I don't want to keep harping on this because it's not at all the point of this thread, I just brought it up to say that a teacher can't necessarily give you all the work or handouts 3 weeks in advance. Every year I am rated highly effective and my constant reflection/modification of lessons is cited in the write-up. Last week I explained my process to the superintendent who was visiting and she praised it. I went to an ivy league school for education, the #3 education school in the country, and this is how we were instructed to plan throughout the year. I am friends with many teachers across the country and this is how we plan. This is how teaching works at any school that has a functioning pulse. I don't know how else to explain it, this is how it is.

nchr

Wed, Jan 16 2019, 12:58 pm

amother wrote:

Yeah, I meant I want to teach my kids to take things easy and not be upset or be pulled down because they feel sick or have a little fever. "It's fine, it will feel better soon, etc." I wouldn't send a child who is actively vomiting to school although I would go to work as an adult because adults have more control over that. Schools have policies about moderate illness, but not mild ones. So fever from ear infections, colds, etc. does not result in me keeping a child home, but actively spreading germs like constant sneezing, vomiting, toileting etc. even without fever would. Sorry if that was not clear.

amother

Indigo

Wed, Jan 16 2019, 1:36 pm

I'm a principal, chiming in to this discussion.

You may be surprised by my response, but I think you should go. It's not everyday that everything else in a family (parent's work, finances, accommodations etc) works out to make a trip possible. As long as you go with the understanding that it's best if you work with the school and you discuss the issues and work with them beforehand, I think that this can only benefit your children.

Although I understand the other teacher's perspective, I am finding her tone offputting. I would encourage a teacher to realize that this is a great opportunity for this student and her family and therefore it is worth a bit of effort on our part to make it possible.

As a teenager, my family was able to pull off a trip to eretz yisroel once. It is hands down the most memorable and meaningful memory of my whole childhood. Imagine if my parents would not have pulled it off because they worried about school. That would have been a tremendous loss!

amother

Pewter

Wed, Jan 16 2019, 2:05 pm

amother wrote:

OP said they did this trip last year. (but not missing school) So its not exactly once in a lifetime.

And seriously, no kid is deprived because they didn't go to Eretz Yisrael. Many many kids don't take expensive trips and survive and have happy childhoods! I didn't go to EY until I was 19 and paid for it myself. My daughter is 18 and going for her first time soon.

Even if you find cheap tickets, accommodation is expensive if you don't have loving relatives to put you up. Sightseeing and eating out is very expensive.

Also, to be perfectly honest, I think if you are not able to take this type of trip very frequently, wait till the kids are a bit older. It's kind of wasted on such young kids. I like the idea of doing a bar/bas mitzva trip.

DrMom

Wed, Jan 16 2019, 2:50 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Of course the classroom will function without the student.

But then the student comes back and, having missed 7 days of school, has missed a good deal of material. The teacher will have to work with that student to get him or her caught up, or at least provide materials for the parents.

I'd get the work ahead time and make sure my child did his/ her schoolwork while we are away.

A teacher should have a lesson plan, so she should have an idea of what the class will learn.

amother

Vermilion

Wed, Jan 16 2019, 3:36 pm

The teacher probably has the overall unit fleshed out, but not the specifics of the daily plans, activities, and materials way ahead of time. I plan my lessons weekly and just about all the teachers I know do the same.
Like I said previously, I'm sure *most* parents who request work ahead of time truly plan to have their kid work on it, but that rarely happens.

amother

Mauve

Wed, Jan 16 2019, 4:41 pm

My kids' teachers/ rebbeim have been very happy to respond to emails letting me know which pesukim/ mishnayos were taught that day. We definitely do try to stay on top of those if they'll be out for a few days, since they move at a pretty rapid pace. Same with math concepts. Am I teaching it exactly as the teacher would? Of course not. But they're familiar enough that any gaps are filled in quickly once they get back.

allthingsblue

Wed, Jan 16 2019, 4:54 pm

amother wrote:

My husband teaches so we can never get those great deals since we can't take time off during the cheap times. Guess my kids won't grow up loving Eretz Yisrael because of that...

Just curious, all of you encouraging amother, would it be the same if it was your childs teacher missing 3 days before and after pesach because that is the only way she can go to EY?

Not that I think kids should never miss school. but I find sometimes the parents who who take weeks off school each year to go on vacation when it is cheaper are the first to complain if the school closes or teacher takes off.

Also, just want to point out, touring in Israel is not cheap. Hopefully you have a place to stay but unless you stick to free things like the kotel, travelling and entry admissions cost money.

We recently went to Israel and travel was a lot cheaper than in the US. There are so many beautiful, kid friendly places, including historic places, that are free or very very cheap.

And I would be annoyed if the whole school closed (which wouldn't happen if just one person needed to go to israel) but if the teacher took off and there was a sub, I wouldn't mind.

amother

Black

Wed, Jan 16 2019, 5:42 pm

nchr wrote:

A teacher should not be preparing documentation on isru chag. The same material should be used annually and should be updated the summer prior. There should be a planner and the schedule should be followed. If I ask you for the work for the second week in March today, you should be able to give it to me today, although some stuff may change slightly or be added. I said to go on vacation and I'm a person who will send my kids to school with fevers, so...

Clearly you've never worked in a school. I have never yet taught the same material 2 years in a row. The school moves me every single summer based on their needs, and I prepare from scratch every single year. In that case, where should my material come from? How should I have it a full month in advance? The summer is not anywhere near long enough to prepare a full 10 months worth of material. Especially as a Kodesh teacher where I am creating every single worksheet from scratch.

That's not even accounting for suddenly getting a very weak or very strong class that needs the materials adapted for them.

amother

Honeydew

Thu, Jan 17 2019, 9:02 am

Please everyone do not send your child to school with fever. I have never in my life heard that people will do this " bshitah". First of all you have no idea who you are infecting and exactly if and when they are contagious so it's extremely selfish to do that . But the main reason you shouldn't do that is for your poor kid! I'm not sure what lesson you are trying to teach but honestly you should be allowing your child's body to rest! School is strenuous on a healthy child let alone a child with fever. Any child with fever regardless if it's just a cold should be home resting and staying hydrated. I'm sure this is just an error in judgment as I really enjoy your posts in general and just felt the need to comment as this just really bothered me mostly for the sake of your children.
Signed a teacher

amother

Coffee

Thu, Jan 17 2019, 9:08 am

its Pesach! if you have the opportunity to go and spend it with close relatives in E"Y and thats what you want to do go for it!
Hopefully you can get the work in advance and help your kids so they don't have a tough transition catching up afterward.
If you can swing it all around - go for it joyfully!
I would think that any jewish school and morah/rebbe would understand going to be with family in E"Y for Pesach and having dates dictated by great priced tickets!!!

Kiwi13

Thu, Jan 17 2019, 9:40 am

amother wrote:

I'm writing as an administrator in a school --
Yes, you are sending a terrible message to the school and your children. Namely, your children's teachers who work so hard day in day out are of second importance. It is so so hard on a teacher and a school to have children leaving early and coming back late. And we will definitely talk about you behind your back, and treat your children differently because we disagree with your choices.
Sadly we are raising children today in a completely self-centered, selfish world where we justify things we do because they're convenient for us, without thinking of the consequences on anybody else.

I'll get bashed for saying it, but just telling it like it is...

(Rant over)

In case no one said this yet, I hear your point that school is important and families shouldn't take days off frivolously. But this is very different. Sometimes even very important things must take a backseat to other very important things. Just because a family chooses a once in a lifetime trip over keeping their kids in school during those few days, doesn't mean that school isn't ALSO a top priority.

amother

Royalblue

Thu, Jan 17 2019, 9:56 am

amother wrote:

Of course! My husband would never miss school just so we could take a vacation at a cheaper time. It simply means my kids have never been to Israel because we can never take time off in a cheap season. I know lots of people in our community are shocked our kids have not been to Israel.

With most other jobs you are not restricted to only take vacation the most expensive travel times of the year.

Really? Unless ur in israel where the pace of life is bh different. In the us most working professionals get off x-mas and New Years. Struggle to make yt work with days off and often can’t take off in the summer because of it.

The holier than you attitude some teachers have is laughable. Yes you don’t get paid a lot. Yes you do amazing work. No, you do not get to complain about vacation days tailored to your religion, 2 months off in the summer etc.