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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
S/O: does Harry Potter turn kids into bad readers?
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 4:09 pm
SixOfWands wrote:
But do kids need to read only "good children's literature"? I certainly don't only read good [adult] literature.


Because their taste is being formed.

I certainly don’t only read good literature, either, but I am capable of enjoying books that provide a more difficult pleasure.
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nchr




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 4:17 pm
sequoia wrote:
Well, I also love Harry Potter.

But my view of good children’s literature doesn’t include it.


Of course not. Harry Potter is full of grammatical errors and more. If kids wants to read it and enjoy reading it, however, that's fine with me. It should not be used as literature in school though. In addition, I would try to steer a kid towards Hobbit or Lord of the Rings first.
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 4:40 pm
Pet peeve: fake "deep" quotes from Harry Potter that don't actually mean anything
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amother
Olive


 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 4:55 pm
A lot of classics can't really be appreciated until a reader reaches a certain level. So I have no problem with kids reading junky (not inapropriate) books, etc. Doesn't mean they won't grow to read and appreciate Louisa May Alcott or Charles Dickens at some point. I read a lot of junk in my day, including comics, sweet valley high, and those silly choose your own adventure books, and even overwrought regency romances at one point. At some point my taste matured, and I am pretty well read when it comes to classics and literature. I really doubt I would have fully appreciated Henry James or Edith Wharton until I became an adult.
My only pet peeve is reading an abridged version of a classic. Because then you are unlikely to ever read the entire novel and you miss out on the full reading/language experience that makes the book a classic.
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amother
Oak


 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 5:05 pm
As a child, I read the classics, the meaningless fluff, and everything in between. I allow my kids to do the same, and they are. I have no problem with them reading less than exemplary literature, so long as it doesn't contradict my values in a significant way (this is an individual decision). I understand that others may want to curate the reading material more, but I wouldn't say not doing so creates bad readers.
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amother
Teal


 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 5:12 pm
Delete

Last edited by amother on Mon, Feb 11 2019, 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 5:18 pm
It’s not about “messages” or “concepts”, but rather about getting used to instant emotional gratification from books. And good books often won’t do that; there’s a reason Nabokov said a good reader is a re-reader.

Moreover, in literature, all we have is the TEXT. Nothing else. When Rowling blithely announces that Dumbledore is gay (why? Because he’s “her” character in “her” world?), she proves that she never had literary creation as such in mind.
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turca




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 5:22 pm
sequoia wrote:
It’s not about “messages” or “concepts”, but rather about getting used to instant emotional gratification from books. And good books often won’t do that; there’s a reason Nabokov said a good reader is a re-reader.

Moreover, in literature, all we have is the TEXT. Nothing else. When Rowling blithely announces that Dumbledore is gay (why? Because he’s “her” character in “her” world?), she proves that she never had literary creation as such in mind.

Sequoia, U read Dostoyevsky. Of course you can’t even think about Harry Potter. Very Happy
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amother
Olive


 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 5:24 pm
Sequoia, have you ever read YA fantasy by Diana Wynne Jones? I'm thinking that you would really enjoy her book Fire and Hemlock.
I read it as a teen, didn't quite "get" it, read it years later as an adult, still don't totally get it, but still love it and reread it every so often. She is kind of like the grown up version of JK Rowling, imo. I'd love to read your take on that novel.
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sequoia




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 5:25 pm
Like I said, I like HP.

And Dosty’s pretty trashy, actually Smile
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Ravenclaw




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 5:30 pm
librarygirl wrote:
I thought the Wednesday wars was a much better book. Okay for now was very unrealistic.


I wondered why Wednesday Wars won an award when Okay for Now didn’t. I found the characters voice to be much stronger in OFN and the themes were so sensitive and dealt with so well.
Guess that’s just my opinion.
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Ravenclaw




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 5:33 pm
nchr wrote:
Of course not. Harry Potter is full of grammatical errors and more. If kids wants to read it and enjoy reading it, however, that's fine with me. It should not be used as literature in school though. In addition, I would try to steer a kid towards Hobbit or Lord of the Rings first.


Yes! My mother read me The Hobbit when I was 5 and I credit that with my love of literature to this day.
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daagahminayin




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 6:08 pm
I grew up with C.S Lewis and other children’s classics, plus I read the His Dark Materials series which was far superior modern children’s literature in my opinion, so when I read Harry Potter it didn’t compare. I found it entertaining and enjoyed the clever satire elements but on the whole the style was a bit too simple for my taste. I also was particularly attached to Harry’s character or understood what was unique about him (apart from the hype around him because of his circumstances).

Still, it’s obviously an incredible accomplishment of J.K.Rowling to create such a worldwide success!
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nylon




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 6:16 pm
I read all kinds of things as a child. Pre Harry Potter. Some of them were TERRIBLE (do we need to go into all those YA serials that were huge in the late 80s/very early 90s)? I have pretty sophisticated tastes as an adult.

Bad children's literature doesn't ruin you for life. It's not the only thing you read. Tastes are developed over time. It's actually good to have a balance of difficulty--reading HP teaches you about the value of reading for fun.

(And I don't consider Harry Potter to be terrible, even. It's decent. I don't think it's the be-all and end-all, but there is a lot worse out there.)
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jewishmommy1




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 6:27 pm
I love the classics- especially Dumas- but to me, Harry Potter is the comfort food of literature. It's attention-grabbing and fun, with a very well-developed world.

Would I let my kids read it? I think I wouldn't offer it. If they ask, I'll have to consider it.
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 6:51 pm
I love Harry Potter and have created another Potterhead in my 6yo daughter.

It makes me happy to re-read it. I’ve re-read the entire series countless times. (I’m one of those people who re-reads all the time. I don’t think I’ve ever really read a book I truly like only one time.) what else is there to say? I know it’s not great literature. But for me, and countless others, it was a defining feature of my young adulthood. I’m so happy to pass the baton to the next generation.

Reading is wonderful. Read whatever makes you love to read.
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amother
Wheat


 

Post Tue, Jan 22 2019, 10:08 pm
I could never get into Harry Potter. Not my style at all and I like to read.
My stepkids are voracious readers and they are all obsessed with HP. They read TONS!
We’re married a few years and they’re still upset that I haven’t read HP.
I don’t know what other thread this is a spin off from but my kids were voracious readers before HP and they still are.
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 23 2019, 12:12 am
I agree that reading level is quite low. After she became famous I feel her quality went down. I noticed a clear difference between the earlier books and later ones.
I love a good classic. My first choices are Dumas and L'amour.
I was convinced to read "Perfidy" due to the beautiful language a friend quoted to me and knowing that it was banned. (But it’s a political book so that made it slightly less enjoyable for me.)
I used to like Shakespeare, but then I realized that though the lines are good and the language beautiful, the stories are kind of lame.
Harry Potter is entertainment, not literature.
It’s due to the high entertainment value that it draws kids into reading when their interest was very low or nonexistent previously. Once that happens, other material of higher literary value can more easily be introduced.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 23 2019, 3:40 am
I agree that Harry Potter is not great literature.

To my mind, neither is Beatrix Potter. And I think CS Lewis misses the point in the quote you posted, Sequoia, though I'd want to read the whole piece to get his context. There are plenty of stories with school elements or wish fulfillment elements that I count as good children's literature, including several Roald Dahl books, Madeline L'Engel's Wrinkle in Time, Norton Juster's Phantom Tollbooth, Natalie Babbit's Tuck Everlasting, and JD Salinger's Catcher in the Rye.

The point, to kids, of Peter Rabbit, has nothing to do with wanting to become a bunny. It's about the guilty pleasure of taking something yummy that's not yours. And the consequences of disobedience.

From that mindset, HP (especially the first book, which was the best) is about coming to terms with who you are, learning to accept and appreciate yourself even when your nearest condemn or punish you for those attributes, and learning to control yourself and use your gifts to benefit society.

The research seems to indicate that it doesn't matter what you read as long as you do a lot of it. To this day, I probably read ten times as much of lesser quality, but my lifelong rule has been to try to mix it up.

IMNSVHO, one should encourage a child to read HP. But then also introduce him/her to other, better things, by reading aloud together and stopping at the good parts. Then making sure they have Shabbos lamps or flashlights on weekends.
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little_mage




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 23 2019, 6:30 am
You have to read the bad stuff to appreciate the good stuff.
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