Poverty doesn't have to equal neglect, s/o micdrop

southernbubby

Thu, Feb 14 2019, 11:33 am

I asked someone today what she thought about a Micdrop presentation where the presenter related overcoming an upbringing of poverty and alleged neglect. ( Not a discussion about the presentation).

The person was bothered by the assumption that poverty and neglect were related and felt that neglect happens in wealthy homes too. She felt that it was a portrayal that might put all poor people in a negative light as more likely to be neglectful parents.

Several posters have stated that their upbringings were poor but happy and their parents took good care of them.

I think that we need more affirmative narratives where parents didn't let the lack of money affect the quality of the children's lives and the kids knew that the parents had done the best that they could.

Money is a big issue in frum families and we need to share resourceful and creative ways to be happy even when there isn't enough money (may all Yidden be blessed with ample parnassa).

amother

Bronze

Thu, Feb 14 2019, 11:52 am

We are poor.
I'm ready for the eggs to be thrown at me!
We don't luxurize, but I will not let my kids wear old or torn clothing. I serve regular dinners including chicken and meat, my family will not suffer because don't have the means to buy. I make sure all look and feel good, regardless of lack of income. They will get their shabbos nosh and have birthday parties. We also buy fruits and vegetables regardless of can we afford it or not. It's painful anough to be in this bracket, my DH, kids and me don't have to suffer from hunger and shame because of it.

gibberish

Thu, Feb 14 2019, 11:57 am

amother wrote:

How do you pay for all these items though? Are you in debt? The money has to come from somewhere.

southernbubby

Thu, Feb 14 2019, 12:04 pm

amother wrote:

I forgot to add: this is a JUDGEMENT FREE thread. No eggs! Just inspiration.

amother

Burgundy

Thu, Feb 14 2019, 12:18 pm

amother wrote:

I grew up poor and understand what you're saying,I always felt lacking, we were always told we can't afford.
But as an adult, we have had very limited funds for many years. We definitely didn't eat chicken,(most weeks, I manage one chicken for shabbos)no meat and no parties or presents.
But, I made sure we didn't live with a "I'm poor" complex. I tell my kids we buy what we need and nobody will be hungry, we will celebrate birthdays as happy events with a supper picked by birthday child and a homemade cake. We discuss what a birthday is and why it's an important day.
I make sure kids look decent even if they have hand me downs ( not torn). I will buy the needed items for the kid that I feel it's important for.
Buying things you can't afford to save from hinger and shame won't help if you end up in major debt.
There are ways to live like a Mentch within budget.
I'm super careful not to allow the poor mentality I grew up with to invade my kids lives.

No judgement, I know what you'er dealing with, just saying what worked for me in same situation.

amother

Bronze

Thu, Feb 14 2019, 12:29 pm

My DH was always a hard worker and was unfortunately let go of his job. Qe had no income for a long while. He bh has a job now and we hope to get back on our feet soon. Yes, we went into debt but I was not going to let this poverty take control over us. We want to be normal like average people live. Of course no luxury and fancy expensive clothing but decent. (I'd buy payless and walmart). We believe and trust that Hashem will provide the money when we need it.

amother

Puce

Thu, Feb 14 2019, 12:56 pm

I grew up in poor home, but in a very happy atmosphere. We didn't constantly hear, there's no money....we can't afford....which many people do.

We wore hand me downs. Never had house repairs. Our happiness came from helping others. We weren't deprived from normal things that our friends did like class trips, going to performances but paid with our own Chanuka gelt. In our home we always had fun, friends, sleepovers, guests. We knew mom put her kids first & bh all grew up healthy even in a difficult situation.

Cheiny

Thu, Feb 14 2019, 12:57 pm

amother wrote:

If you’re able to pay for all those things you mentioned, I’d say you’re probably not poor.

amother

Honeydew

Thu, Feb 14 2019, 1:16 pm

amother wrote:

How do you swing that?

amother

Pink

Thu, Feb 14 2019, 1:19 pm

Is it neglect to not have enough chicken for 40 people when you are expecting 10?
Is it neglect to not be able to afford overnight camp?
Is it neglect to buy clothing on sale or from the thrift store?
Is it neglect to not have enough bedrooms for each child to have his/her own room?
Is it neglect to allow a child to make a closet into a bedroom so they can have a private space?
Is it neglect to not be able to afford an out-of-town high school?
Is it neglect to allow a motivated child to earn money to do just that?
Is it neglect to trust your independent child when they say they arranged a place to stay?
Is it neglect not to send spending money to that child when they never asked for it and demonstrated an ability to earn their own pocket change?
Is it neglect to not check your 9th grader's suitcase and ensure they aren't missing any toiletries?
Is it neglect to trust your child when they say they're doing great and love school and are living by their friend's house and got clothes from an amazing gemach?

On that note...
Is it neglect to run out of fruits or vegetables?
Is it neglect to save certain foods for Shabbos?
Is it neglect to wear hand-me-down underwear?
Etc.

Why don't we define actual neglect before deciding whether or not poverty plays a role in it?

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Feb 14 2019, 1:25 pm

I think ‘poor’ is so relative to ones expectations, childhood, community, standards, mentality etc. it’s really hard to quantify.

And I definitely don’t think poor =neglect, it may mean being extra in tune with your kids, giving lots of love & attention, and doing everything in your power (including without your kids knowledge, accepting govt assistance and tzeddaka) so everyone’s basic needs are met, and some not basic but very important wants as well (for one kid that may mean slightly nicer clothes, another perhaps a party like all her friends, etc. Nicer clothes can be bought at a major sale, party mostly free games & home made cheap food, obviously it takes creativity.)

Last edited by amother on Wed, Mar 13 2019, 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Pink

Thu, Feb 14 2019, 1:34 pm

amother wrote:

I don't like to judge others but personally I wouldn't let my 9th grader go away to highschool without knowing exactly where she is living and speaking to the parents, making sure this is someplace I am comfortable with my kid living.

"Mommy, I want to go away to high school!"
"I know, sweetheart, but we really can't afford that."
"But I REALLY want to!"
"Okay, I'll ask the school."
...
"Well, tuition is a lot less than I was expecting, but I don't think we can do it anyhow. It's very expensive to get to New York, and we can't afford to pay for boarding."
"I have money saved up from babysitting!"
"That's just enough to get you to New York."
"So that's what I need!"
"But where will you stay then?"
"Rivky's house!"
"On Crown Street? Where you stayed that week after camp?"
"Yes."
"Are you sure that Rivky's family is okay with that?"
"I'll ask her."
...
"Rivky said her parents agreed!"
"I know Rivky's family, they are good and responsible. They really agreed?"
"Yes, I just asked her!"
"Okay, if you're sure..."
(Take daughter to bus station with sandwiches for the way)
"Hatzlacha Rabbah! Call us to let us know everything is okay!"
...
"Mommy, it's AMAZING here! I LOVE it!"
"That's wonderful, sweetheart! I'm glad we agreed to send you."
...
"Do you need any spending money, dear?"
"No, I'm fine! Save it for the kids at home! I have babysitting money."
"Are you sure?"
"Yes, of course!"
"Okay, I'll buy them a treat from you. We miss you!"
...
"Do you have enough clothing, sweetheart? Do you need me to send you anything?"
"No, I'm great! I got stuff at a gemach here, it's all tznius and fits perfect!"

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Feb 14 2019, 1:35 pm

I don’t think we qualify as poor, but we def are tight. We both work in chinch. While DH and I usually prioritize our money according to what makes sense -the needs in life, sometimes we will put the money towards things that on pen & paper don’t seem logical -but help our kids feel special & taken care of.

For example we recently got into a small amount of debt, working very hard to repay it. Never the less -we went on a 2 day vacation instead of all that money being put towards the debt. We really felt it was something important for our family due to numerous reasons. We still kept it toned down, didn’t fly anywhere and chose the destination smartly... but on pen & paper it still didn’t make sense.

Was it worth it? I think the smiles & warm memories my kids share definitely made it so...

Birthdays are another thing very important in our family. And even in tight months a party and present for each kid is high on our list. Is it an important priority for everyone? Def not, but in our family it is, and so me and DH make it work -even if on pen & paper it doesn’t make sense. Sometimes it may mean sacrificing some of our food money & pushing off buying other important things, but to us it’s important.

amother

Bronze

Thu, Feb 14 2019, 1:41 pm

When I say being poor, it means having no income for a family of many.
When I say I buy what we need, it means we get stuff from from thrift shops, lower end stores and the minimum. But I will not live like a pauper.
We pay by credit card and trust that Hashem will provide payment.
Our children know the difference between NEEDS and WANTS. Needs will be met, wants might not.
Chicken for dinner is a need for us, as DH cannot tolerate dairy (for health reasons) and kids need good nutrition.