Am I obligated to get orthodontics for kids

amother

White

Thu, Feb 28 2019, 7:18 am

pesek zman wrote:

It’s not referring to cheap shoes vs expensive shoes. It doesn’t matter if your shoes are from Payless or target or wherever. But if the shoes have holes in them, or are so worn down with scuffs and scratches and missing laces, it signifies that a person can not afford new shoes (or a shoemaker) In fact, you can always tell that a person is homeless from his shoes. Similarly, when a person has missing teeth or teeth that are very crooked, it shows the world they couldn’t afford dental/orthodontia. You may not agree with these assessments but you should know they are being made

Re: shoes. Don’t be so sure. I know some people who consider buying new shoes regularly a waste but are generous with Tzedakah. They can afford new shoes but make a choice where to put their money.

In the U.K. orthodontics are free if they are for medical reasons but not cosmetic ones. Two of our DCs had the works: braces, operations etc. One of our DCs can’t get it free because we were told it was cosmetic only. I asked her if she wanted me to go ahead (I would have happily paid) but she told me not to bother. As I said before, I am not going to force her to have something non essential.

amother

White

Thu, Feb 28 2019, 7:26 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

I can’t believe that people think orthodontics are not an obligation. It definitely is. Part of raising children is taking care of their needs. Orthodontics are not a luxury.

As I say in my previous post, if it is medically necessary I agree, but it is not a “need” to have perfect teeth, it’s a want and nice to have. I have veneers on my front teeth for cosmetic reasons (although initially it was partially medical) but that was a choice I made as an adult. Something that I wanted. They wear out and need replacing and that is something I am prepared to pay for. However, this is definitely a luxury vs a need.

I do take care of my DC’s needs in that she has shelter, food, clothes. I have told her that I will pay for her non-medically necessarily braces but she doesn’t want me to. She doesn’t want the discomfort or bother of wearing/cleaning them. Not everyone values perfect teeth above everything else. If she changes her mind as an adult, then she can go ahead.

pesek zman

Thu, Feb 28 2019, 8:11 am

amother wrote:

It’s not about MY assumptions about people whose shoes have holes or Haven crooked teeth: its the impression it gives to others. Wearing shoes with holes in them would very likely limit the opportunities a person gets: from a second interview to a covered internship.

And regarding practices in the UK: I have a British husband who has crooked teeth. I know all too well.

amother

Brown

Thu, Feb 28 2019, 9:52 am

pesek zman wrote:

The English are notorious for their terrible looking teeth Very Happy

Americans have traditionally been known for their beautiful teeth - at least since the 1950's and the Baby Boomers every middle class child had braces to perfect imperfect teeth. Back then it really was more cosmetic because there was less knowledge about the long term impact of misaligned teeth.

amother

White

Thu, Feb 28 2019, 9:54 am

pesek zman wrote:

Obviously people who can afford to buy new shoes for an internship or interview would do so!

But why are your DH’s teeth crooked since orthodontic work is free in the U.K.? 🤔

My two DCs who has orthodontic work free in the U.K. don’t have crooked teeth and my DC who hasn’t had work and doesn’t qualify for the work free has ok passable teeth. I certainly wouldn't describe them as crooked.

amother

White

Thu, Feb 28 2019, 9:56 am

amother wrote:

The English are notorious for their terrible looking teeth Very Happy

As someone with dual U.K. and U.S. citizenship who has lived extensively in both countries, I find these generalizations annoying at best... FWIW, I got my initial veneers free in the U.K...

devash1

Thu, Feb 28 2019, 10:57 am

I have a neighbor that is 26 in shiduchim.her family has no money and over 15 children so I took the time to go to a organization that helps people with their teeth. I brought her to the appointment and all she had to do was take an x-ray for about 50 shekelsbecause it was totally subsidized. They would have literally built up all of her teeth which would have been about 20000 shekels of work.I offered to take her there even though it was a five-minute walk from her home about 20 times and she was always too busy. It makes me sad thinking about it because she is a pretty girl but the teeth really affect her whole face. After about a year of calling twice a month I finally gave up. Just mentioning this because I also tried to help her with shiduchim and all the shadchanimI spoke with said they were having a very hard time setting her up because of her teeth. At least in Israel are orthodontist gives a very reasonable payment plans over a year. It is still hard but makes it much more manageable.

amother

Brown

Thu, Feb 28 2019, 11:09 am

amother wrote:

As someone with dual U.K. and U.S. citizenship who has lived extensively in both countries, I find these generalizations annoying at best... FWIW, I got my initial veneers free in the U.K...

Didn't you notice the emoticon.

It's a trope - a cliche - a joke - just as the All American girl or boy is a cliche with the gleaming white smile.

As cliches have some origin in fact, I would imagine that it has something to do with the prosperity of post WW II America versus the economic deprivation of Britain after WW II which still had rationing in effect for many years. That would have been the Baby Boomers of the UK versus the Baby Boomers in the US who were lucky to be growing up in a newly prosperous US in the 1950's.

Prior to WW II, there was not the vast middle class in the US and teeth of those who grew up prior to WW II would have suffered. Even the nutrition available would have caused people to have teeth that were less strong since many children in the US (and elsewhere) didn't have adequate calcium and other basic needs met because they were so poor. My grandfather grew up in the Depression and there were times when his family lacked adequate food prior to the New Deal literally saving people's life.

Many men in the US were overwhelmed by the availability of food when they were drafted in the Army for WW II - especially those from very poor rural areas where the Depression lingered on.

The stature of men (as measured by military enrollment) changed as nutrition became better and even as late as WW II many men could not meet basic physical requirements and had diseases caused by nutritional deficiencies like rickets.

pesek zman

Thu, Feb 28 2019, 11:27 am

amother wrote:

Passable to some is crooked to others (me)

gold21

Thu, Feb 28 2019, 12:21 pm

It makes a difference if the orthodontics are needed for a significant overbite OR for a small space behind a couple of back teeth that's barely visible.... I mean, the more visible/significant the issue, the more necessary that the work is taken care of ASAP.

OP never clarified what precisely the orthodontics would be for, how her children feel about their teeth/bite, and how bad the teeth are, so it's hard to know what to advise.

Personally, I needed braces for years as a child/teen. My baby teeth apparently decided to fall out abnormally late so I ended up wearing braces later than most of my peers. Just very glad it was taken care of before adulthood.

amother

Navy

Thu, Feb 28 2019, 1:01 pm

pesek zman wrote:

Passable to some is crooked to others (me)

And then we can discuss how different Orthodontists achieve a different bite. I had braces as a kid and went and got veneers as an adult because I preferred the look. I'll get my kids braces, for functionality, but if it is about cosmetics, natural teeth can never come close to veneers. Will people be saying veneers are a must in 20 years from now?

amother

Amethyst

Fri, Mar 01 2019, 6:21 am

My older siblings got braces and my parents could not afford to get me braces. My front two teeth have a gap and my tooth is very crooked. All my children got braces as soon as they needed. I will not smile with my mouth open and talk quietly with my top lip over my teeth. I hate my smile I don’t like the way I look. Please give your kids the self confidence they need to grow up with a happy smile and a happy face.

amother

White

Fri, Mar 01 2019, 8:38 am

amother wrote:

Yes, I got it was a joke, but it is tiresome already... Thank you though for the (slightly off topic) interesting history lesson re: rickets etc.

amother

White

Fri, Mar 01 2019, 8:40 am

pesek zman wrote:

Passable to some is crooked to others (me)

My daughter’s teeth aren’t crooked, she just has a few that are bigger than the others. Also, some people’s teeth keep growing later (I was 16 when I lost my last milk tooth and didn’t get wisdoms until upper 20s) so it is possible her smaller teeth will grow on their own and catch up to the larger ones.

amother

Cobalt

Fri, Mar 01 2019, 9:04 am

devash1 wrote:

Stories like these make me very sad and angry. This young woman is suffering because her parents didn't know when to stop having children. And even now she is presumably a slave to them as she cannot find the time to get herself the help she needs. And she's probably been brainwashed that it is her duty in life to help out with her umpteen siblings. Terrible.